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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#109076: Jan 18th 2016 at 2:56:39 PM

Plot Twist: The occupation of the federal building was actually just a ploy to acquire free sex toys.

Leviticus 19:34
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#109077: Jan 18th 2016 at 2:57:30 PM

O'Malley is something of a zero politically [snip] Baltimore [snip] cleanup [snip] corrupt police department...

[recognition slowly dawns] But he looks nothing like Littlefinger!

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#109078: Jan 18th 2016 at 3:08:17 PM

Yeah, the guy from The Wire was broadly based on O'Malley's time as Baltimore mayor.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#109079: Jan 18th 2016 at 4:04:34 PM

Sanders is a Single-Issue Wonk for the economy, but I can't really fault him for it. Many — arguably most — policy issues are fundamentally economic in nature.

The big question for me is whether Sanders or Clinton would actually be more effective as president. I like Sanders' policies more, but unless he gets a friendly Congress, he won't be able to implement many of them. But Clinton's positions aren't bad, and I think she'd be better at dealing with a hostile Congress than Sanders.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#109080: Jan 18th 2016 at 4:09:38 PM

Even if the economy is important, you have to be capable of handling other stuff.

Like saying that IS is caused by the economy doesn't help much in actually dealing with them now.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#109081: Jan 18th 2016 at 4:12:03 PM

Sanders and O Malley are both terrible on foreign policy. Worst, it's clear that they regard it as an utter side show, whereas Obama, while not strong their, at least had some sort of vision. These two dismiss it out of hand. O Mally always says some shit about "human intelligence" and Sanders always says his spiel about Abdullah,one suspects he has a serious man crush their. They both dismiss Russia and China out of hand with that same dam "the Cold War is over" mindset that got us into such a precarious position to begin with.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#109082: Jan 18th 2016 at 4:20:41 PM

The real tragedy in Flint

TLDR:

* Flint’s elected leadership makes what is actually a solid, sound decision [pumping and treating their own water instead of relying on Detroit for supply] that will, in the long run, save the city millions of dollars and give it more control over its destiny – and, because it positions Flint as a wholesale supplier of water, possibly enhance revenues for them.
  • Detroit Water Board decides to be spoiled, pissy assholes and leaves Flint with no good options for the two years before its pipeline is built.
  • Flint’s elected leadership and GOP-appointed EFM make a careful, well-deliberated decision to draw water from the Flint River. [Namely, it was fine to use, and easy to treat, so long as you kept the ph right, which leads us to the final point]
  • Flint’s water staff – the people in Flint who are the experts on this sort of thing – apparently aren’t up to the task. And the people they count on to oversee and help them …
The Michigan DEQ, is completely asleep at the switch. And once they discover their mistake, they lie about it and ask Flint to help them lie.

According to the author, this was more of a case of Hanlon's Razor than malicious greed, black people genocide, or excessive austerity. He certainly goes out of his way in his effort to exonerate the GOP and the Governor. *shrug* I'm mildly skeptical, but I like arguments that deviate from what we've been hearing, if only to break the monotony and have some actual discussion instead of repeating our favourite media sources' editorial lines.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#109083: Jan 18th 2016 at 4:32:12 PM

I like Sanders' policies more, but unless he gets a friendly Congress, he won't be able to implement many of them.
He's more or less resigned on that point and has more or less stated he plans to use the Presidency for Executive Orders and to help Liberals/Progressives across the country shove a boot up the Republicans' asses as much as possible.

Basically, he would use the victory as a beacon for grassroots efforts.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#109084: Jan 18th 2016 at 4:34:57 PM

[up][up][up][up],[up][up][up]I'm cool with that. I'd rather see us get our own house in order than focus on foreign affairs to the detriment of domestic ones. And I actually liked both Sanders' and O'Malley's responses to a question about ISIS — basically, that the US should be working in a support role for the local powers in the region. This is a far better answer, by my thinking, than either "just bomb them and leave" or "invade and fix everything!", given that large scale logistical support is something that the US is uniquely capable of doing (really; we're the only country on the planet that can move large quantities of materiel worldwide both on short notice and for extended periods of time) and lets us keep our hand in world events while not coming across as (or actually being, for that matter) aggressive or imperialistic.

[up][up]It's not an either/or thing between "malice" and "stupidity". It's the former allowing for the latter. Basically, no one cares, so there's not enough money to pay for not-stupidity. I can totally believe that everyone involved did the best they could with the situation they had. The problem is that the situation was unsustainably shitty in the first place because no one cares about places like Flint.

[up]That's reasonable. If he can hang on politically long enough to get a friendlier Congress in place (and the first enormous Tea Party wave in the senate is up for reelection during what would be his term, IIRC, so that's not unlikely) then he could do some real good, and in the meantime he'd be channeling gives-no-fucks Obama and doing everything he could on presidential authority.

edited 18th Jan '16 4:37:50 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#109085: Jan 18th 2016 at 5:18:19 PM

Unfortunately, and no offense, but the US is pretty much the Dumb Muscle of the world. They have great power and influence, but unfortunately usually don't know how to use it properly and do some really stupid things with it. They have done some good before, though, and made some nice things.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#109086: Jan 18th 2016 at 5:30:16 PM

I don't think it's that the US is dumb muscle so much as intervening in international incidents is actually really hard, and the US is the only one with the muscle to even try anymore. Back in the gold old days, no one cared about using a light touch — they just invaded and occupied when they wanted something and fuck the locals. And when (or if) they took their troops home and left later? Well, if the region collapses into an anarchic orgy of unrestrained violence, who cares? Not the departing country's problem anymore.

That said, the fact that doing stuff like that is hard is one of the reasons I'd like to see more international coalitions that include local powers, rather than just throwing ordinance at problems and hoping that's good enough.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#109087: Jan 18th 2016 at 5:36:23 PM

It does seem to be the case that Flint was largely a bureaucratic fuckup, but the question is that it never would have happened if the state cared enough to do the due diligence.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#109088: Jan 18th 2016 at 9:23:06 PM

The way they've been handling it after the problem came to light seems to have been the nail in the coffin of that issue, though. Their response to it has been craptastic, quite frankly, and I think if they'd actually jumped on the issue and actually tried to get water there in numbers that actually help then Snyder and co. wouldn't be getting quite as much bad press as they currently are.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#109089: Jan 18th 2016 at 11:55:11 PM

A hilarious and chilling little bit of speculation:

"And I conceived also a great foe, the most terrifying Republican imaginable, clever beyond reckoning; more successful by far than Regan, for his intelligence would be perfected in all the ways that Regan had been flawed and self-destructive. A Republican candidate who would do his cunning utmost to disrupt the arguments of his opponents, a candidate who would command the deepest loyalty from his followers through his oratical skills. The most unstoppable Republican who had ever run for office in the history of the United Sates."

"But then, while I had sometimes played the part of far-right troll in my wanderings, I had never adopted the identity of a full-fledged presidential candidate with supporters and a political agenda. I had no practice at the task.

"So you decided to try a small-scale experiment first," Harry said. A sickness rose up in him, because in that moment Harry understood, he saw himself reflected; the next step was just what Harry himself would have done, if he'd had no trace of ethics whatsoever, if he'd been that empty inside. "You created a disposable identity, to learn how the ropes worked, and get your mistakes out of the way."

"Indeed. Before becoming a truly unstoppable Republican, I first created for practice the persona of an arrogant, offensive billionaire, pointlessly rude to all those around him, pursuing a political agenda of naked personal ambition combined with anti-immigrant racism as argued by drunks in backstreet bars." The sick sense of understanding deepened, in the pit of Harry's stomach. "And you called yourself Donald Trump."

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#109090: Jan 19th 2016 at 6:16:13 AM

Is paranoia THAT rampant in the U.S that anything that any candidate whose policy is not "TOUGH FACE IN FRONT OF ALLIES AND ENEMIES" and does not make a big show of how tough and stringent he is going to be with other nations regarded as a failure in foreign policy?

I know it exists. Just that seeing it here is weird. The sentiment that any slight show of "weakness" (AKA a sentence that does not really carry the implicit threat of bombing something) by a suited up president of the U.S is going to be day the U.S will falter, be bombed, invaded and destroyed or something?

edited 19th Jan '16 6:26:36 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#109091: Jan 19th 2016 at 6:20:20 AM

That paranoia mainly lives on the right, plus select folks who believe themselves part of the chimerical middle. It's the idea that everyone will tear us down the minute we relax our watch, and the world will dissolve into an orgy of war thereafter.

[down] For once, I said it more nicely. cool

edited 19th Jan '16 6:34:28 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#109092: Jan 19th 2016 at 6:29:32 AM

Ah yes, the idea that the unwashed masses need a nice strong White Man to keep them on the path to civilisation.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#109093: Jan 19th 2016 at 6:33:44 AM

Well. On second thought, my bad. I was thinking "I am stranged at how this would happen in a relatively left leaning forum that is about discussing tropes in fiction"

And then I remember most works of fiction are literally about America Saves the Day

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#109095: Jan 19th 2016 at 6:50:09 AM

Now I just remembered buying and reading Steve Alten's Goliath. So much misguided patriotism. Well, at least I got it from a bargain bin.

edited 19th Jan '16 6:51:27 AM by DrunkenNordmann

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#109096: Jan 19th 2016 at 6:50:50 AM

Could be worse. Over here anyone who didn't emphatically support the bombing campaign in Syria is considered to be a "terrorist sympathiser".

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Know-age Since: May, 2010
#109097: Jan 19th 2016 at 6:53:27 AM

I sort of have to wonder how much of that talk is pandering to voters vs lobbyist groups though.

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#109098: Jan 19th 2016 at 7:17:26 AM

Nothing wrong with Tom Clancy, except politically.

He did manage to research his way into freaking out the CIA and Navy after all.

That and his scenarios, stripping the politics out of it, have a scary, if broad, tendency to become a thing in real life. Debt Of Honor being the most obvious example.

EDIT- Can no longer read him either though, so Fighteer's point stands.

edited 19th Jan '16 7:18:59 AM by FFShinra

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#109099: Jan 19th 2016 at 7:19:37 AM

You can't really separate Clancy's politics from his plots, because every single one of his stories ends with red-blooded, patriotic American technology and gumption saving the world, which is screwed up in the first place because of anti-American/anti-freedom (they are synonymous, don't you know) villains, idiotic hippie liberals, or both.

Admittedly, he had no particular love for Right Wing Militia Fanatics, either.

Don't get me wrong: I love the thriller aspects of his stories. But as I got older I began to realize just how biased they are.

edited 19th Jan '16 7:22:34 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#109100: Jan 19th 2016 at 7:27:25 AM

Tom Clancys SSN was a scary prediction of what is currently going on between the US and China over disputed Islands. Even predicting Chna's artificial islands and such.

It was the Spratly islands, China / Philippines dispute, though not the Senkaku islands, China / Japan dispute.

edited 19th Jan '16 7:28:42 AM by Memers


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