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Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#108901: Jan 15th 2016 at 6:40:34 PM

4-5% is cider levels.

Then again I have a hard time holding that. Despite being a student.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#108903: Jan 15th 2016 at 10:31:13 PM

Bound to happen. Both those guys are old as shit.

Does probably mean once the new blood comes in, they'll all become like Red Eye in style.

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#108905: Jan 16th 2016 at 3:29:33 AM

mock them into submission, perfect

advancing the front into TV Tropes
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#108906: Jan 16th 2016 at 5:36:37 AM

[up][up]So this is a group of ranchers who feel like they're between a rock and a hard place as corporate interests are slowly squeezing them out of the industry by indirectly ripping them off. And they think that by throwing a fit in the government's backyard, the government will just take care of the problem for them by either making these corporations agree to pay more or making the meat packers charge more or whatever. I understand what they're trying for, but this strategy of theirs just seems a little too....simplistic to succeed. Like, underpants gnomes levels of simplistic.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#108907: Jan 16th 2016 at 6:09:44 AM

[up]

I thought their beef (no pun intended) was that "Da Govern-ment shouldn't be owning land!", which would allow the various ranchers access to it instead (blithely ignoring, say, the indigenous people who should own the land if the government didn't). They aren't saying squat about the Mega Corps having too much land, at least not that I've heard.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#108908: Jan 16th 2016 at 6:12:32 AM

[up]I think the problem is that the corporations are pressing for smaller and smaller beef prices from the meat packers who in turn are paying these ranchers less for the beef.

EDIT: Wait. You're right. I misread an article about it. It was saying that these exorbitantly low prices corporations were paying were what the ranchers SHOULD have been fighting against. Not what they were fighting against. Totally my bad.

4-5% is cider levels.

Then again I have a hard time holding that. Despite being a student.

A low alcohol tolerance is a good thing IMO. Means that dependence is less likely, and you save money.

edited 16th Jan '16 6:32:21 AM by nervmeister

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#108909: Jan 16th 2016 at 7:17:23 AM

If you want the full lowdown on the situation, it goes something like this:

As said, Mega Corps have nothing to do with it. The government owns a lot of land in the west, sometimes up to 3/4 of a state. Most of that has been that way since these states became states at all. A lot of that land is set aside as wildlife refuge and state parks. Despite that, the government leases much of the land to local ranchers to graze their cattle at an incredibly deep discount of 93% compared to what the private market would have them paying.

The thing in 2014 resulted from 20 years of Cliven Bundy, (the patriarch of a rancher family) refusing to pay those grazing fees because he claimed that the land should be his since his ancestors had worked it, (despite the fact that his family only moved there when he was a child and the government had owned it since 1848) and his claim that he refused to recognize the existence of the Federal Government at all, claiming that he only recognized the government of his state of Nevada, and not anything above it, despite the Nevada State Constitution explicitly acknowledges the US Federal Government. The government started to seize some of his cattle for non-payment of grazing fees and fines totaling over $1 million, a bunch of armed conspiracy theorists, Sovereign Citizens, (guys who refuse to acknowledge any government as legitimate) militia types, and such went to Bundy's ranch and kept the government from collecting at gunpoint. The government, deciding that a few cattle weren't worth inflaming a militia/antigovernment movement that basically increased in size 10 times the moment Obama was elected and has continued growing ever since, backed off. Shortly afterward, a couple that had been involved in the standoff ambushed and killed a pair of cops on lunch break, and were killed after a shootout with law enforcement, declaring that this was just the opening salvo in a war against tyranny.

Now this latest thing in Oregon came about from two local ranchers, (the Hammonds) setting fire to a bunch of land, (over 100 acres, IIRC) to protest the fact that the government owns so much of it and they're prevented from buying it for themselves. They were convicted under a law passed by Reagan to discourage domestic terrorism, and which should have carried a 5 year minimum. Their lawyer convinced the judge that such a sentence was disproportionate and the judge ignored the mandatory minimum, sentencing them to a few months for one guy and a year for the other. Naturally the government responded by saying, in effect "That's bullshit! The judge can't just throw the minimum required by the law!" Unsurprisingly, a higher court agreed with the government, although the courts being as slow as they are, the decision didn't come down until after the Hammonds were released from jail, so they had to be ordered back to jail to complete the rest of the sentence.

This didn't set well with Ammond Bundy, one of Cliven's sons, who grabbed his militia buddies and went up to Oregon to protest government tyranny. To his surprise the Hammonds told him to STFU when he got up there, and promptly complied with the order to go back to jail, depriving Bundy and the militia of the spectacle of them protecting two citizens from the jackbooted government thugs. Instead they went and took over the local building of the Fish and Wildlife service, but were so sure that the government would come in after them guns blazing that they neglected to bring any food. Instead law enforcement was content to ignore them, since they took over a pretty insignificant building and it was more important to them to deny the militia, and those connected to them, their chance to die in a blaze or martyrdom and glory, so the militia people have been left free to go about their business. They're not even besieged or anything, they've been allowed to use the money sent in by supporters to go food shopping locally. The militia has simply been trying harder to provoke a response, including following law enforcement figures home and harassing the people who work for the Fish and Wildlife Service. They've also pissed off local Indian tribes who originally occupied the land and have been prevented from accessing it for religious purposes and such since the militia took over.

So here's how I summarized the situation awhile back:

  • Militia: We believe that local people should have more control over their own lives, which is why we stand here in support of the Hammonds!
  • The Hammonds: We don't want you to stand anywhere near us, we're going back to jail, now will you out-of-staters and all the people you dragged here from across the country fuck off?
  • Militia: Nope, because we know what's right for you locals!

  • Militia: We need to give this land back to its original owners... the ranchers!
  • Native Americans: ...the fuck did you just say?!!

  • Militia: The government has no right to own land! It's newfangled tyranny, tyranny! *Waves copy of Constitution*
  • Everyone who's ever read the Constitution: Um, sure the government does. It's right there in the Constitution. It's not even an amendment or anything, it's part of the original text!

  • Militia: Tyranny! Tyranny! Police state! We have to fight for our rights!
  • The Country: *Allows militia to protest, despite being armed, taking over government land/building, and even lets them drive unmolested to the nearest town to fetch additional supplies to continue their protest while they call for people to take up arms against their country and overthrow it, a textbook definition of insurrection, possibly terrorism and treason too*

edited 16th Jan '16 7:43:09 AM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#108910: Jan 16th 2016 at 7:40:52 AM

[up]Ah! Much appreciated. Yeahhhhhhh, this is looking more ridiculous on the part of these so-called freedom fighters. Would've made for a good South Park lampoon, had the current season been longer.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#108911: Jan 16th 2016 at 7:51:32 AM

A very sadistic Schmuck Bait would be to send them chemicals, tools, and a recipe to make, say, nitroglycerin, together with abundant government documentation on the regulations on hazardous chemicals and explosive devices, insisting on the safety issues and how the populace should be protected from their own stupidity.

I bet you a hundred dollars a Darwin Award would be won before the day was over.

edited 16th Jan '16 7:51:41 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#108912: Jan 16th 2016 at 7:58:26 AM

I assume some federal agents are staring at them from very far away?

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#108913: Jan 16th 2016 at 8:01:45 AM

So I was reading the article on Nitro Express and ended up watching this short video:

Confederate flag apologists should take example: this is how you keep heritage alive.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
hamza678 Red Like Santa from Christmas Beacon. Since: Apr, 2013
Red Like Santa
#108914: Jan 16th 2016 at 8:03:46 AM

Those anti government clods really piss me off. They want the benefits of living in the US, without any of the sacrifices. And they are supported by conservatives who claim to hate welfare.

Now known as Cyber Controller
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#108916: Jan 16th 2016 at 8:46:49 AM

"They lost that claim..."

Yeah, because we killed them. God I hate these assholes so much.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#108917: Jan 16th 2016 at 8:53:27 AM

Imagine the reaction of the president who designated the land a wildlife refuge in the first place, if he were still around...

Teddy Roosevelt and his Big Stick would put a serious case of hurt on these clods.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#108918: Jan 16th 2016 at 8:58:20 AM

@Handle, I always loved those Canadian Heritage moments. I think ones like that really taught 7 year old me not to white-wash history.

edited 16th Jan '16 9:30:00 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#108920: Jan 16th 2016 at 10:22:06 AM

Birther bullshit shall consume its own.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#108921: Jan 16th 2016 at 10:25:40 AM

[up] And possibly Trump too?

Keep Rolling On
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#108922: Jan 16th 2016 at 10:28:00 AM

No. We need him to destroy the GOP from the inside. His job is not done yet.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#108923: Jan 16th 2016 at 10:30:44 AM

Intellectually I consider all birtherism to be bullshit but I can't help but chuckle at it coming back to bite him on the ass.

Trump delenda est
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#108924: Jan 16th 2016 at 10:45:43 AM

Well, ain't that something, I was just expecting someone to bring the brither shitstorm to Cruz but I didn't imagine that Trump would do it.

Now I can see Obama chuckling and thinking, "how does that feel now you idiots?".

Inter arma enim silent leges
Gault Laugh and grow dank! from beyond the kingdom Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: P.S. I love you
Laugh and grow dank!
#108925: Jan 16th 2016 at 10:49:20 AM

What's the rationale behind the importance of being born in America? Is the theory that someone born outside the country won't be properly loyal to the interests of the United States considering it isn't their homeland?

yey

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