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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#108826: Jan 15th 2016 at 9:22:30 AM

Fair enough, and I agree, education on the subject is definitely an area where campuses should take action. (So should high schools, but that's an area where we need to disenfranchise the Republicans before we can get any work done.)

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#108827: Jan 15th 2016 at 9:26:20 AM

[up] Earlier than High Schools. Elementary Schools.

Keep Rolling On
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#108828: Jan 15th 2016 at 9:29:07 AM

Yeah, even something as simple as saying "Boys will be boys" can lead to problems.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#108829: Jan 15th 2016 at 9:30:06 AM

Well, the specifics of consent are probably not coming up in elementary. Elementary school sex ed, for me, focused on...well, it was called Human Growth and Development, and that's pretty much what it was. Middle-school Health class, sadly, was a half-semester of Why You Should Abstain Until Marriage, by George W. Bush.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#108830: Jan 15th 2016 at 9:30:28 AM

[up][up]That far from a simple thing, it's the front end of a massive cultural problem when it comes to enforcing strict gender roles onto children that are harmful to both boys and girls.

[up] Just the basic idea of consent about anything could be taught super early, a simple "don't do something with/to another person unless they say they want you to" can be taught with no reference to sex.

edited 15th Jan '16 9:31:58 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#108831: Jan 15th 2016 at 9:43:45 AM

The problem is that its too easy for the pendulum to swing right back the other way and people start treating anyone with a Y chromasome as a rapist who hasn't had a chance to act yet, which is just as unhelpful.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108832: Jan 15th 2016 at 9:55:57 AM

Hell, I've been teaching my son the rudiments of consent and he's barely 10.

I would have to say that the pendulum has a long way to go before it's really working against men. The "slippery slope to reverse-discrimination" argument can only be seen by the victims of current discrimination as ... technical terms here... a crock of shit: a ballsy and offensive excuse for inaction.

edited 15th Jan '16 9:56:35 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#108833: Jan 15th 2016 at 9:56:31 AM

You don't need to be of a specific gender to understand "No means no".

The Last Week Tonight bit on Sex Ed in America was both hilarious and terrifying, hilarious because bigots are always fun to laugh at, and terrifying because those bigots were a huge influence on the way sexuality is perceived in America.

And honestly, between the current way rape is dealt with in society, and one where every thinks that "all men are rapists", there isn't a thin line, there is a lightyear-wide canyon.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#108834: Jan 15th 2016 at 9:59:56 AM

This conversation reminds me of the time I heard someone go "Women aren't the victims of more sexual harassment and assault because they can legally say no to their husbands."

edited 15th Jan '16 10:00:41 AM by LSBK

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#108835: Jan 15th 2016 at 10:04:13 AM

Actually, I can see that point considering the system still engages in wholesale victim blaming.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#108836: Jan 15th 2016 at 10:04:47 AM

[up]X4 It wouldn't be reverse discrimination, that's not a thing, it would simply be discrimination. But I agree with your point, we're far from being at that point. There are even legit cases of discrimination against men, but they tend to be ignored by many groups because they're not done by feminists and often groups are more about opposing feminists then helping men.

edited 15th Jan '16 10:05:05 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#108837: Jan 15th 2016 at 11:01:03 AM

Oh, you are one of those. I am not sure I have the stomach for another round of presenting evidence that false rape accusations are all but nonexistent on college campuses, whereas sexual assaults are frighteningly common and massively underreported, only to have you wave around anecdotes as evidence.
Well, let's try case study statistics then. Now, if you're talking about rape accusations classified as false as according to law enforcement guidelines, then yes, it's a pretty flimsy percentage (just short of 6 percent; hell even as low as 2 percent in other studies). However, the percentage of rape accusations that didn't even make trial in order to determined whether or not they were true beyond a reasonable doubt is much higher (in the ballpark of 58 percent according to the SFAR study), leaving them in a figurative no-man's land of sorts where you and I can only say with any kind of objectivity, "maybe; maybe not". That leaves me with the question of how many of the remaining 35 percent which actually went to trial got "guilty" verdicts.

edited 15th Jan '16 11:07:18 AM by nervmeister

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#108838: Jan 15th 2016 at 11:26:24 AM

So the data agrees with us but you don't like that so you're going to try and reinterpret the facts and redefine what a false allegation is because that's the only way to support your argument?

Fighter how's that button looking?

Thanks for that link though, it's a good study, though I'd say it realy needs a comparative with other crimes for some perspective.

edited 15th Jan '16 11:27:23 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108839: Jan 15th 2016 at 11:28:35 AM

[up][up]A report of sexual assault that is not followed up on in no way indicates a false accusation; more likely it indicates insufficient evidence... or intimidation of the victim. Statistics on that would be helpful, at least. But I do have to wonder how and if data that does not support your point of view changes your mind on this topic.

edited 15th Jan '16 11:28:47 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#108840: Jan 15th 2016 at 11:30:10 AM

[up] Seeing as he just provided data that doesn't agree with his point of view, and Trent ride to dismiss it, I'm gonna go ahead and say that data that disagrees with him isn't going to sway him.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#108841: Jan 15th 2016 at 11:35:45 AM

I'm going to pop in and note that this is more a discussion for the sexism thread, and is rapidly veering away from actual politics.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#108842: Jan 15th 2016 at 11:40:06 AM

[up][up][up][up]

Hey, I'm all for rapists getting what's coming to them. But, say, in pursuing said rapists campus policy gets to the point where even an unproven accusation is more than enough to destroy a student's academic career, that ought to be cause for concern.

Notice how I never said "false" in this post of mine. It's quite possible for a claim to be neither proven true nor false.

[up]Noted. Back on topic then. Trump I believe was what we were talking about.

edited 15th Jan '16 11:43:56 AM by nervmeister

FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#108843: Jan 15th 2016 at 11:52:01 AM

terrible, ain't he?

advancing the front into TV Tropes
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#108844: Jan 15th 2016 at 11:55:45 AM

[up]Outspoken, politically un-saavy, and blatantly pandering to be sure.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#108845: Jan 15th 2016 at 11:57:57 AM

Would it be too much to say his toupee is a better candidate than the man himself? Or has that joke already gotten run into the ground.

FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#108846: Jan 15th 2016 at 12:00:35 PM

also... this

advancing the front into TV Tropes
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#108847: Jan 15th 2016 at 12:06:36 PM

A Houston attorney has filed a federal lawsuit against Ted Cruz on his eligibility for president saying his birth in Canada violates the Constitution's "natural born citizen" clause.

I dislike Cruz, but I loath the birther movement no matter who it's aimed at.

Someone spotted opened amiibo, Nintendo's figurines, during a Youtube video with Obama.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#108848: Jan 15th 2016 at 12:08:43 PM

[up][up][up]I picture it sitting atop, ironically enough, a bald eagle's head, mentally controlling and speaking through it like an alien brain parasite as it addresses the nation.

edited 15th Jan '16 12:42:13 PM by nervmeister

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#108849: Jan 15th 2016 at 1:42:40 PM

[up][up]

Honestly, I find it hugely cathartic given that Cruz rode that Birther Train all the way to the Senate.

As for the Amiibos, he does have a pair of teenaged daughters, and is himself a rather huge nerd, so it makes sense.

RE: Rape discussion, Nevr, the whole "58% never go to trial" could be for a number of reasons, ranging from the victim (male or female) just wanting to move on with their life to, of course, the possibility of a false accusation to begin with. That's a lot of leeway in regards to motivations.

And Fighteer, part of the issue is a number of well-publicized recantations of alleged child molestation and the like that led to convictions, jail-time, and Sex Offender Registry status for the accused, coupled with the general attitude of prosecutors not wanting to punish the false accusation for fear of scaring real victim from approaching authorities. It's a crappy situation all-around, to be sure, and the solution (if there is one) isn't going to be easy to find, let alone reach.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#108850: Jan 15th 2016 at 1:44:34 PM

Hasn't Trump got his own Birther controversy, as his mother was Scottish?

Keep Rolling On

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