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probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#108626: Jan 13th 2016 at 3:49:49 PM

lemme see... google's founders are jewish. facebook too. Oracle founder. Dell.

just concentrating on tech founders. if we include tech ceo jews, the numbers swell.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#108627: Jan 13th 2016 at 3:59:16 PM

Just because they are Jewish, doesn't mean they are in this massive conspiracy. Jewish secularism is a thing, after all.

That said, in a narrower and corporate scope, I'm certain conspiracies are pretty common. And not exactly that hidden. tongue

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#108628: Jan 13th 2016 at 4:04:11 PM

[up] it's less a conspiracy and more about being suspicious of the 1 percent.

If your friend is American? American Jews are similar to Asian Americans. Middleman minorities and dominant minorities tend to raise suspicion from the larger less well off majority.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#108629: Jan 13th 2016 at 4:36:43 PM

Left-wing conspiracy theories aren't hard to come up with. There's more than one leftist who struck me as paranoid.

A hypothetical set of left-wing conspiracy theories: There's a fascist (perhaps capitalist) cabal that secretly controls much of the world. Most mass-media is controlled by this cabal to send subliminal messages to justify nationalism, racism, and inequality. The cabal causes wars between nations to occur to stir up nationalism in both warring nations. This cabal greatly exaggerates the evils of Stalinist regimes, and was actually the real reason why the Soviet Union collapsed, not the fact that Communism is a bad system. They killed JFK and MLK because they love racism. 9/11 was caused by this Cabal to stir up the Military-Industrial Complex. The list goes on.

Leviticus 19:34
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108630: Jan 13th 2016 at 4:52:55 PM

Cute. The difference, of course, is that the liberal mainstream tells those idiots to get bent. Not so with the conservative mainstream.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#108631: Jan 13th 2016 at 4:57:24 PM

[up][up]That as well.

And you don't need to be a dumb uneducated dipshit to believe those theories either. I've seen and dealt with seemingly intelligent people who were dead serious believing the world was controlled by the Illuminati or the Jews control all the media to make socialists look bad or are responsible for every economic crisis in order to advance whatever agenda they have.

Those kind of beliefs are so entrenched it is hard to get people out of them, instead when I was participating of the skeptic project, debunkers are now focusing on preventing people from being sucked into conspiracy theories.

edited 13th Jan '16 4:57:58 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#108632: Jan 13th 2016 at 4:59:32 PM

Yeah, frankly once you fall into that whole facts and truth are subjective thing there's little chance of getting you out.

Best thing to do is to keep people out of that pit in the first place.

Oh really when?
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#108633: Jan 13th 2016 at 5:39:09 PM

So much pure ideology in this thread. wink

edited 13th Jan '16 5:39:41 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#108634: Jan 13th 2016 at 6:04:30 PM

[up][up][up][up]I'm not saying that's the case, I'm simply saying that conspiracy theorism isn't inherently right-wing.

Which party is more paranoid IMO depends on a lot of cultural factors, one of which simply being It's Popular, Now It Sucks!. From what I can tell, the GOP really wants to distance itself from George W. Bush, who was seen as an authoritarian figure. What they seem to be trying is framing themselves as La Résistance against a Crapsaccharine establishment. This, in my opinion, was a terrible idea on their part, and is responsible for probably at least 50% of the problems I have with the GOP.

edited 13th Jan '16 6:04:42 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
hamza678 Red Like Santa from Christmas Beacon. Since: Apr, 2013
Red Like Santa
#108635: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:23:35 PM

I noticed that a lot of conspiracy theorists seem to be Libertarian, actually. For example Alex Jones loves Ron Paul.

Now known as Cyber Controller
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108636: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:25:07 PM

The GOP committed suicide the day it decided to cast off its intellectualism to pander to the Southern Democrats. Everything since then has been its twitching corpse wriggling around, not realizing that it's dead.

We should have made a condition of ending the Civil War the removal of the right to vote of anyone who ever owned a slave, extending that for about five generations.

edited 13th Jan '16 8:27:30 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#108637: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:30:38 PM

[up]I do seriously hope that you're joking.

Leviticus 19:34
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108638: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:33:19 PM

Only slightly. After all, isn't most of our problem these days the residual racism from the slavery era, tortured into ever more ridiculous rationalizations? It's our nation's original sin and there is nothing too extreme to exorcise it.

The Civil War should have ended with blacks receiving not only freedom but full voting rights, plus reparations, and anyone who participated in slavery losing their own franchise in return. As it stands, we've spent a century and a half diddling around with the question of whether we have any responsibility in the matter.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#108639: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:37:32 PM

Eh, Constitutional law has long since established you can't be punished for something that wasn't illegal when you did it.

That's not to say that slavery was right or acceptable. But I don't think it's in the American Spirit™ to retroactively punish people.

But yeah, we definitely screwed the pooch on the post-war effort. But of course we did: we were a bunch of racists!

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108640: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:44:19 PM

Well, we managed a Constitutional amendment banning slavery, and the South was technically not part of the United States when the war was being fought. Allowances could have been made.

However, you're right that racism was still way too strong back then for the outcome I described to be possible. Our loss.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#108641: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:05:16 PM

It is possible to be too extreme, even when fighting something as deplorable as racism. There's a reason why Utopia Justifies the Means and Knight Templar are villain tropes.

Leviticus 19:34
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#108642: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:07:59 PM

The official stance was that the South was still part of the United States throughout the Civil War. They were "states in rebellion", not "the Confederate States of America". A court case (dealing with a contract made in the South during the Civil War) also ruled that the south not only did not secede, but that secession was not even possible.

hamza678 Red Like Santa from Christmas Beacon. Since: Apr, 2013
Red Like Santa
#108643: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:09:14 PM

You know about the Bundy's. Found This article about Anti-Government camps. It's very interesting and disturbing.

Now known as Cyber Controller
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108644: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:09:22 PM

[up][up] Point.

[up][up][up] When I watch what the ravages of racism have done to our nation, it's hard to imagine any solution short of genocide being "too extreme".

edited 13th Jan '16 9:09:32 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#108645: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:11:37 PM

Just as a practical matter, while we don't need to justify or defend racism, it's probably easier to get people "on board" if you phrase it as a way of "what you feel/do is understandable but it's wrong; help us help you to be better people" rather than "YOU'RE A TERRIBLE PERSON!"

I don't care about arguments about whether the latter is true or not, I'm trying to get results here, people!

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#108646: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:13:27 PM

True but a great deal of American racism simply cannot be solved.

It is propelled by malice and generations of hatred. Education won't work because you have to remember that facts and the truth are subjective.

Oh really when?
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#108647: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:15:42 PM

See, to me, addressing that whole "facts are subjective" issue is the REAL problem.

But eh, it's probably insurmountable so let's all just give up.

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#108648: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:19:10 PM

I think it can be very close to being fixed, although it would take a long ass time.

I mean, segregation is illegal now. XD

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#108649: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:21:12 PM

Funny thing is, Grant apparently wanted to push through much more civil rights legislation, similar to what finally passed nearly a hundred years later.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#108650: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:39:51 PM

Usually, when someone thinks that any action is justified against an evil (no matter how legitimate), that's when problems start to form.

In the case of how being too extreme in the case of anti-racism could cause very serious problems.

For example: if racist speech could get someone thrown in jail. Now, once this society gains a president who's an ethnic minority, critics will inevitably be accused of being racists. Then they'll be thrown in jail. Ergo, this society would be an authoritarian one where all people who criticize the president are thrown into prison. Also, it could backfire and allow actual racists to pretend to just be regular dissidents standing up to an oppressive system that calls everything racist-in turning giving them a sense of legitimacy in the public eye.

Leviticus 19:34

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