TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

FalseDichotomy from Your mind :o Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#108451: Jan 10th 2016 at 1:37:26 PM

[up][up][up]Is the New York Times better?

EDIT: So this is what it feels like to be page-topped.

edited 10th Jan '16 1:40:28 PM by FalseDichotomy

Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#108452: Jan 10th 2016 at 1:49:13 PM

@LSBK Sanders' superiority is roughly clear to me. He polls better against the GOP candidates (something originally true for Clinton), he has a progressive streak a mile wide, and he's the cleanest of the two by reputation, possibly in fact. Clinton's strengths are apparent pragmatism, a robust network of contacts, and six years of youth on Sanders.

[down]Someone posted an article a few days ago about "cliodynamics," how every fifty to sixty years we Americans get founders' fever and try to root the corruption out of government. I wonder if I'm in the thrall of that, because I would almost rather not have a president who's been thoroughly groomed for the job.

edited 10th Jan '16 2:16:40 PM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#108453: Jan 10th 2016 at 2:01:39 PM

And she's been a lawyer, law professor, has to know the workings of Governorship and the Oval Office by virtue of proxy to her husband, and has Senatorial and Head of the State Department related knowledge.

Basically she's acutely aware how government jobs do and don't work in most positions bar being an actual member of the Judiciary.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#108454: Jan 10th 2016 at 2:11:39 PM

I feel like Sanders has the better vision, but Clinton would be more competent. But, in my mind, the former is more important. You can delegate competency, but vision is what decides what you consider important enough to get done in the first place.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#108455: Jan 10th 2016 at 2:15:05 PM

I really don't trust Sanders with our foreign policy. And as for our economy, I don't honestly know what to think. We may have another FDR on our hands, or we may have another Jimmy Carter.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#108456: Jan 10th 2016 at 2:30:03 PM

what's wrong with his foreign policy? if you're talking about him explaining shit likes ISIS through economics... all I have to say is Keynes predicted the rise of fascism in Europe due to the sanctions imposed on Germany before anyone else

advancing the front into TV Tropes
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#108457: Jan 10th 2016 at 2:31:23 PM

If he was better on foreign policy, I'd support Sanders to the hilt. At this rate, I'd prefer a team up of Clinton and Sanders (top or bottom, don't care, if they allow vice presidency is powerful enough that whoever has to be on the bottom ticket can use their expertise/vision to help where the top of the ticket lacks).

EDIT-

[up]Explaining the rise is only useful after the fact. Need to do something in the here and now too.

edited 10th Jan '16 2:32:33 PM by FFShinra

Khudzlin Since: Nov, 2013
#108458: Jan 10th 2016 at 2:41:48 PM

[up] Predicted means before the fact. Are you blaming Keynes for government leaders not listening to him?

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#108460: Jan 10th 2016 at 2:46:21 PM

[up][up] He's blaming Obama for dismissing ISIS as the "JV team" and not doing anything about the war in Syria until it was much to late.

edited 10th Jan '16 2:46:30 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#108461: Jan 10th 2016 at 9:21:06 PM

You'll never see Clinton and Sanders run together; they are both simply too old.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#108462: Jan 10th 2016 at 10:31:59 PM

I'm voting for Sanders, but I hope he gets a strong SecState and SecDef to shore up his complete deficit of demonstrated ability in foreign policy. Also, his Big Ideas are vulnerable to scotching if he can't get the Treasury and Attorney General of his choice - I think that if he's elected both Republicans and establishment Democrats are going to look very carefully at whoever he tries to appoint for those jobs, because neither group wants him doing a hatchet job on the financial sector.

On the issue of competence versus vision: Having experience means having worked within existing power structures. Sanders doesn't have that background, which means that he can fight Wall Street and the financial industry - but that he's at a disadvantage when doing so because he doesn't know half of the crap that they're up to.

Khudzlin Since: Nov, 2013
#108463: Jan 10th 2016 at 11:07:48 PM

@Shinra: Nope. Fry talked about Keynes predicting the rise of fascism, that is, tried to warn people before it was too late. You answered as if he had explained it after the fact. Any real solution to terrorism must include making life less shitty for the potential recruits, because if you don't, there will still be plenty of desperate people ready for recruitment (and even more if you try to crush them militarily).

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#108464: Jan 11th 2016 at 1:32:07 AM

You aren't getting my point then. Explaining the why doesn't help with the how to stop. Explaining the rise of fascism didn't say how to get the Germans out of Paris. Neither does saying global warming and economics say how you get Daesh out of Raqqa. Such analysis only helps after the fact, when you are in preventative mode, not elimination mode.

Mind, the Republicans are guilty of the opposite extreme, which is the "bomb them and forget them" mentality, which I detest just as much. But their stupidity doesn't justify Sanders' position as smart. Or O'Malley's. All it means is the two parties both have half-assed measures with each holding the opposing half.

edited 11th Jan '16 1:34:49 AM by FFShinra

Khudzlin Since: Nov, 2013
#108465: Jan 11th 2016 at 2:26:30 AM

[up] And you aren't getting mine. Bombing the hell out of ISIS will only feed into their martyr narrative and create more terrorists (like imposing huge war penalties on Germany after WW 1 led to the rise of Nazism). Also, preventative measures are most useful before it's too late (for Keynes' prediction, it would have been shortly after WW 1), unless you're talking about preventing it from happening again.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#108466: Jan 11th 2016 at 2:38:56 AM

Shinra's point is that Sanders being economically savvy enough to explain the rise of ISIS in economic terms doesn't help now that ISIS already exists and is an actual, current problem rather than a potential future problem.

Khudzlin's point is that someone who has a proven track record of successfully predicting problems before they became problems is a good person to put in power so that they can be in a position to stop potential future problems before they become actual current problems.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#108467: Jan 11th 2016 at 3:59:38 AM

The great Clinton Sanders tax divide More like Clinton knowing the middle class will never vote for somebody raising their taxes.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108468: Jan 11th 2016 at 5:08:12 AM

I would, if and only if it would mean recouping what I paid in taxes in social benefits. If, for example, Sanders wants to replace the private healthcare system with single-payer, I would undoubtedly save massive amounts of money in the long run, so the taxes to fund it would be worthwhile.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#108469: Jan 11th 2016 at 6:37:18 AM

I am with Sanders in the economical policy though. You cannot solve anything without understanding it, and though there are many, many, many components historical and societal and political about stuff like ISIS, the economical one is a clear incentive to many.

Clinton just blathers the exact same U.S policies of years past that have gotten absolutely nowhere. I think Sanders' foreign policy is definitely worth a try.

This is not to say I would despise Clinton as a Prez. She's k. But I wouldn't dismiss Sanders' foreign policy just because he isn't mentioning how ready he is to engage in actual military confrontations and waving the U.S dick of how much they are going to fuck enemies up. Or, just as usual for the Democrat side, how they are going to "support" other people by giving them guns.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108470: Jan 11th 2016 at 7:31:37 AM

We are never going to stop the cause of terrorism without rooting out the systemic inequalities that lead to a feeling of political and economic disenfranchisement. We also need a plan to deal with the terrorists that already exist and won't be stopped short of death, preferably without creating more in the process.

Republicans have a plan for neither. Democrats seem to have general, if somewhat vague plans for the latter, with Sanders the only one presenting a reasonable plan for the former.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#108472: Jan 11th 2016 at 2:35:33 PM

don't PETA run the "shut down the Zoo's!" line? they're a bunch of bloody loons as far as I'm concerned...

advancing the front into TV Tropes
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#108473: Jan 11th 2016 at 2:36:11 PM

Makes no sense even for the nuttiest PETA sorts to help them in any way considering their advocacy of poaching and resource exploitation o_O

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#108474: Jan 11th 2016 at 2:39:01 PM

[up] This is PETA, they carry out the regular killing of plenty of animals, sense doesn't come into it.

edited 11th Jan '16 2:40:57 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#108475: Jan 11th 2016 at 2:40:01 PM

they're occupying a bird sanctuary (or something, I never got past laughing at them forgetting to bring food) and that makes them good in the eyes of PETA as "they're stopping evil people from breeding birds and preventing them from going extinct as nature intended, as nature is always right"

advancing the front into TV Tropes

Total posts: 417,856
Top