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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#108276: Jan 7th 2016 at 11:40:59 AM

Thats what I'm saying. Tea Party does not equal all republicans. I'm completely in agreement thats how Tea Partiers govern, but not all the GOP are TP people.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108277: Jan 7th 2016 at 11:43:02 AM

#NotAllRepublicans? Since when was that ever a logically sound argument? The Tea Party and the Trump Party have hijacked the local party apparatus and the national primary process. There is no Republican Party any more, just a bunch of radicals running things while the moderates sit around wondering what happened and take turns denouncing Democrats over gun control and "wishy-washy" foreign policy.

Guns, ISIS, Benghazi and EmailGate are like the little shiny balls that the party dangles in constituents' faces while its hardliners steal all the candy.

"Oooh, we can't tax rich people any more. They'll pout!" (aside) "Good, that'll keep us in power for a bit. Now grab their healthcare!"

edited 7th Jan '16 11:51:50 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#108278: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:00:17 PM

How is it not a logically sound argument to point out that not all republicans are the same? Not all democrats are the same either. ESPECIALLY at the state level.

Saying what happens in one state will happen in every state completely ignores local politics, circumstances, and capabilities, nevermind differences in ideology.

EDIT-

Daesh IS an issue. Dems can't ignore it. Doesn't mean they have to parrot the Kill Em All strategy of the GOP, but they can't reduce it to "it's all climate change and economics" either. THAT is why they keep coming off as wishy washy on foreign affairs.

edited 7th Jan '16 12:01:46 PM by FFShinra

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#108279: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:01:34 PM

Shinra, which Republican governors do you feel are running things along non-Tea Party lines? Which state level parties aren't pushing for Tea Party policies, because the party sure is at a national level.

edited 7th Jan '16 12:02:15 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#108280: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:04:29 PM

Governor of TN has been pretty laid back, as far as republicans go. Republicans in the north east in general are less likely to be Tea Party than in the flyover states.

edited 7th Jan '16 12:06:08 PM by FFShinra

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108281: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:06:46 PM

Shinra, you've held onto the dream for a while, but it's time to let it die. The Republican Party that you hold in your mind is a myth, a chimera, a thing that has vanished in a puff of ideological smoke.

The funny thing is that all the things you criticize the Democrats for are based on misinformation. There are plenty of Democrats that support aggressive measures against Daesh/ISIL, plenty of Democrats who are not hardliners on gun control. There are corporate Democrats and radical Democrats and Democrats in between. There is malfeasance and corruption among Democrats.

You keep holding up these strawmen that don't stand up to scrutiny. Your ideology is dead. It is now Trumpism and Cruzism that dominates the right. Northeastern Republicans may be a bit more moderate than the norm, but Trump was scheduled to invade Burlington, Vermont last night with 20,000 supporters to hold a rally there.

Let's face it: your choice on the 2016 ballot will most likely be between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump or Ted Cruz.

edited 7th Jan '16 12:08:13 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#108282: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:08:03 PM

Fighter, even at a state level in the north-east? I don't think Shinra disagrees about at a national level, but at a state level in all 50 states?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#108284: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:10:08 PM

Thank you, Silas.

I'm not a Republican, so stop painting me as one, Fighteer. I merely made a point that you shouldn't paint with a broad brush. Goes for both parties (so yes, I know that there are plenty who do, but right now the only people getting screen time are the presidential candidates, two of the three of whom fit my description).

EDIT-

[up]You were talking about state level. So was I. So trying to change your argument to mean you were talking about national level is crap and you know it.

edited 7th Jan '16 12:10:43 PM by FFShinra

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#108285: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:11:32 PM

Well then it's a good thing we're talking about at a state level isn't it?

In the end the Republican Party is going to survive, if the south implodes and all that's left is the more moderate wing up in the north east isn't that better then both sets imploding and the nutty south maintaining its natural dominance?

edited 7th Jan '16 12:11:42 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108286: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:12:39 PM

[up][up]Yet your criticisms of the Democrats come right out of the Republican propaganda playbook.

If moderate Republicans can hold on at the state level in some parts of the country, that's great, but right now the mere fact of them holding onto the name whilst the shenanigans go on in Kansas and Michigan and Wisconsin is tainting the entire party.

Tribal loyalty is holding the GOP together but how much longer will it last? What will self-proclaimed moderates (on either side) do if Trump or Cruz is the nominee? In the meantime, who is going to punish Rick Snyder?

edited 7th Jan '16 12:16:15 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#108287: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:18:01 PM

What criticism has Shinra made that's out of the Republican play book? Because I'm pretty sure no Republican has said that we should have a long term state building plan for the Middle East instead of either a "not our problem" head in sand or a "kill them all" bomb in sand aproch.

edited 7th Jan '16 12:18:22 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#108288: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:18:02 PM

Because Democrats let themselves fall into Republican traps on perception. Doesn't help that you have people like DWS helping the perceptions the GOP gives of the "Hil coronation", or that those who could speak tougher on issues aren't given much room in the media on the Dem side.

Also, not all complaints against the democratic party are illegitimate. Just because the GOP hijacks criticism and turns it into farce doesn't stop the initial criticism from having merit. Benghazi wasn't a conspiracy, but it was a fuck up. The email issue wasn't a scandal, but Hilary needed to be less opaque on it. If you are gonna score own goals, don't be surprised when your enemies jump on the chance to parade it as more than it is.

EDIT- Silas speaks for me better than I speak for myself. Heh.[lol]

edited 7th Jan '16 12:18:46 PM by FFShinra

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#108289: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:19:27 PM

The vast majority of the Republicans that end up showing up in the news are, however, Tea Party yutzes like Snyder/Walker/Brownback.

Because Tea Party Republicans are the ones who cause outrage. And thus media attention.

And end up being in significant stardom.

So.

Fighteer's not wrong. Maybe in means of articulation.

But his argument the big name Repubs that matter are pretty much copy-paste Tea Partiers or guys trying to be Tea Partiers is pretty much on the nose. And there are a reasonably significant number of them.

Or the guy with the Hair Piece. Who knows how to play the media like a finely tuned fiddle.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#108290: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:19:33 PM

Yeah in the end the pot being a hypocrite does not stop the kettle being black.

[up] Thing is we weren't talking about people in the media, but about who to vote for at a state level. There are perfectly reasonable reasons for someone in say New Hampshire to vote republicans for their state level stuff.

edited 7th Jan '16 12:21:23 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#108291: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:21:57 PM

Guys.

Guys.

Guys.

The Republicans and The Democrats are both silly!

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#108292: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:30:36 PM

[up]

Exactly. The democrats are too leftist, and the GOP too moderate. So they are equally bad.

Leviticus 19:34
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#108293: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:31:17 PM

[up] Thing is we weren't talking about people in the media, but about who to vote for at a state level
And at the state level, a non-insignificant number of people really find the Tea Party model a model that makes them hot and bothered. And they vote in.

Exactly. The democrats are too leftist, and the GOP too moderate. So they are equally bad.
If the GOP is too moderate, then I'm an intelligent shade of blue.

edited 7th Jan '16 12:32:34 PM by PotatoesRock

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#108294: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:34:42 PM

[up] the leftist/moderate thing might have been tongue-in-cheek. Hard to tell in text

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#108295: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:38:22 PM

Republicans in the north east in general are less likely to be Tea Party than in the flyover states.

That's... a bit debatable, really. There have been a fair number of Republicans in the north east elected campaigning as Tea Party or allied to them, at both local and state levels, (both of the last two Republican challengers for governor here in New York proudly identified with the Tea Party) and at least some figures in a leadership role, (like Maine's Governor Le Page) pretty much is a Tea Party figure in all but name.

edited 7th Jan '16 1:13:23 PM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#108296: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:45:26 PM

Well, I'm hoping Protagonist was just joking. Mostly because that kind of attitude is what leads to the supposedly rebellious position of not voting out of apathy. The golden means fallacy can be quite harmful.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#108297: Jan 7th 2016 at 1:24:33 PM

The democrats are not too leftist. I mean, maybe for people on the right they are. But whenever the media pines about the theoretical centrist candidate that would save the day, the policy provisions they describe ARE THE POSITIONS OF DEMOCRATS

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#108298: Jan 7th 2016 at 1:49:14 PM

I say we form an alliance with a bunch of other countries Daesh has pissed off so we can EXTERMINATE them.

But I'm not an expert, so it'll probably end in someone worse coming out of things.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#108299: Jan 7th 2016 at 1:52:02 PM

I am, for the record, joking about the GOP being too moderate, though I am a republican myself.

Though I'd argue that the GOP is slowly turning into Dixiecrats.

Leviticus 19:34
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#108300: Jan 7th 2016 at 1:54:55 PM

[up][up]Already happening, you got a good chunk of the militarily active European states, the US, Iran and Russia already attacking ISIL, with Turkey and Saudi Arabia pretending they are doing something useful.

But to get rid of ISIL there are somethings that need to be done outside the military sphere, including fixing the mess in Syria and enforcing a transition government with a ethnic and religious power sharing in both Iraq and Syria in order to prevent another opportunistic group like ISIL to rise again due to political, ethnic and religious conflicts turmoil.

edited 7th Jan '16 1:55:14 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges

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