Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
#NotAllRepublicans? Since when was that ever a logically sound argument? The Tea Party and the Trump Party have hijacked the local party apparatus and the national primary process. There is no Republican Party any more, just a bunch of radicals running things while the moderates sit around wondering what happened and take turns denouncing Democrats over gun control and "wishy-washy" foreign policy.
Guns, ISIS, Benghazi and EmailGate are like the little shiny balls that the party dangles in constituents' faces while its hardliners steal all the candy.
"Oooh, we can't tax rich people any more. They'll pout!" (aside) "Good, that'll keep us in power for a bit. Now grab their healthcare!"
edited 7th Jan '16 11:51:50 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"How is it not a logically sound argument to point out that not all republicans are the same? Not all democrats are the same either. ESPECIALLY at the state level.
Saying what happens in one state will happen in every state completely ignores local politics, circumstances, and capabilities, nevermind differences in ideology.
EDIT-
Daesh IS an issue. Dems can't ignore it. Doesn't mean they have to parrot the Kill Em All strategy of the GOP, but they can't reduce it to "it's all climate change and economics" either. THAT is why they keep coming off as wishy washy on foreign affairs.
edited 7th Jan '16 12:01:46 PM by FFShinra
Shinra, which Republican governors do you feel are running things along non-Tea Party lines? Which state level parties aren't pushing for Tea Party policies, because the party sure is at a national level.
edited 7th Jan '16 12:02:15 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranShinra, you've held onto the dream for a while, but it's time to let it die. The Republican Party that you hold in your mind is a myth, a chimera, a thing that has vanished in a puff of ideological smoke.
The funny thing is that all the things you criticize the Democrats for are based on misinformation. There are plenty of Democrats that support aggressive measures against Daesh/ISIL, plenty of Democrats who are not hardliners on gun control. There are corporate Democrats and radical Democrats and Democrats in between. There is malfeasance and corruption among Democrats.
You keep holding up these strawmen that don't stand up to scrutiny. Your ideology is dead. It is now Trumpism and Cruzism that dominates the right. Northeastern Republicans may be a bit more moderate than the norm, but Trump was scheduled to invade Burlington, Vermont last night with 20,000 supporters to hold a rally there.
Let's face it: your choice on the 2016 ballot will most likely be between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump or Ted Cruz.
edited 7th Jan '16 12:08:13 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Those are all but irrelevant at the national level.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Thank you, Silas.
I'm not a Republican, so stop painting me as one, Fighteer. I merely made a point that you shouldn't paint with a broad brush. Goes for both parties (so yes, I know that there are plenty who do, but right now the only people getting screen time are the presidential candidates, two of the three of whom fit my description).
EDIT-
You were talking about state level. So was I. So trying to change your argument to mean you were talking about national level is crap and you know it.
edited 7th Jan '16 12:10:43 PM by FFShinra
Well then it's a good thing we're talking about at a state level isn't it?
In the end the Republican Party is going to survive, if the south implodes and all that's left is the more moderate wing up in the north east isn't that better then both sets imploding and the nutty south maintaining its natural dominance?
edited 7th Jan '16 12:11:42 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran![]()
Yet your criticisms of the Democrats come right out of the Republican propaganda playbook.
If moderate Republicans can hold on at the state level in some parts of the country, that's great, but right now the mere fact of them holding onto the name whilst the shenanigans go on in Kansas and Michigan and Wisconsin is tainting the entire party.
Tribal loyalty is holding the GOP together but how much longer will it last? What will self-proclaimed moderates (on either side) do if Trump or Cruz is the nominee? In the meantime, who is going to punish Rick Snyder?
edited 7th Jan '16 12:16:15 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"What criticism has Shinra made that's out of the Republican play book? Because I'm pretty sure no Republican has said that we should have a long term state building plan for the Middle East instead of either a "not our problem" head in sand or a "kill them all" bomb in sand aproch.
edited 7th Jan '16 12:18:22 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranBecause Democrats let themselves fall into Republican traps on perception. Doesn't help that you have people like DWS helping the perceptions the GOP gives of the "Hil coronation", or that those who could speak tougher on issues aren't given much room in the media on the Dem side.
Also, not all complaints against the democratic party are illegitimate. Just because the GOP hijacks criticism and turns it into farce doesn't stop the initial criticism from having merit. Benghazi wasn't a conspiracy, but it was a fuck up. The email issue wasn't a scandal, but Hilary needed to be less opaque on it. If you are gonna score own goals, don't be surprised when your enemies jump on the chance to parade it as more than it is.
EDIT- Silas speaks for me better than I speak for myself. Heh.
edited 7th Jan '16 12:18:46 PM by FFShinra
The vast majority of the Republicans that end up showing up in the news are, however, Tea Party yutzes like Snyder/Walker/Brownback.
Because Tea Party Republicans are the ones who cause outrage. And thus media attention.
And end up being in significant stardom.
So.
Fighteer's not wrong. Maybe in means of articulation.
But his argument the big name Repubs that matter are pretty much copy-paste Tea Partiers or guys trying to be Tea Partiers is pretty much on the nose. And there are a reasonably significant number of them.
Or the guy with the Hair Piece. Who knows how to play the media like a finely tuned fiddle.
Yeah in the end the pot being a hypocrite does not stop the kettle being black.
Thing is we weren't talking about people in the media, but about who to vote for at a state level. There are perfectly reasonable reasons for someone in say New Hampshire to vote republicans for their state level stuff.
edited 7th Jan '16 12:21:23 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Exactly. The democrats are too leftist, and the GOP too moderate. So they are equally bad.
Leviticus 19:34edited 7th Jan '16 12:32:34 PM by PotatoesRock
That's... a bit debatable, really. There have been a fair number of Republicans in the north east elected campaigning as Tea Party or allied to them, at both local and state levels, (both of the last two Republican challengers for governor here in New York proudly identified with the Tea Party) and at least some figures in a leadership role, (like Maine's Governor Le Page) pretty much is a Tea Party figure in all but name.
edited 7th Jan '16 1:13:23 PM by TheWanderer
| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |I am, for the record, joking about the GOP being too moderate, though I am a republican myself.
Though I'd argue that the GOP is slowly turning into Dixiecrats.
Leviticus 19:34![]()
Already happening, you got a good chunk of the militarily active European states, the US, Iran and Russia already attacking ISIL, with Turkey and Saudi Arabia pretending they are doing something useful.
But to get rid of ISIL there are somethings that need to be done outside the military sphere, including fixing the mess in Syria and enforcing a transition government with a ethnic and religious power sharing in both Iraq and Syria in order to prevent another opportunistic group like ISIL to rise again due to political, ethnic and religious conflicts turmoil.
edited 7th Jan '16 1:55:14 PM by AngelusNox
Inter arma enim silent leges

Thats what I'm saying. Tea Party does not equal all republicans. I'm completely in agreement thats how Tea Partiers govern, but not all the GOP are TP people.