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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#108176: Jan 6th 2016 at 11:48:31 AM

[up][up][up]You'd be right if this were the general election, where one can broadly agree on what is positive and negative. But in polls that JUST cover the base? He'll lose points. So I hope he loses a great deal.

EDIT- Damn pagetopper.

edited 6th Jan '16 11:48:56 AM by FFShinra

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108177: Jan 6th 2016 at 11:49:57 AM

No, because then Cruz stands to win, and Cruz is the kind of person who would be even more toxic than Trump as a Presidential candidate because the mainstream, amazingly, takes him semi-seriously.

Trump is a comic book buffoon running on a stereotypical Fascist platform. Cruz is a fanatical ideologue with a very real and very serious agenda of hate.

edited 6th Jan '16 11:51:13 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#108178: Jan 6th 2016 at 11:50:50 AM

Sadly, I think he IS likely to win the nod. Which makes him easy to beat in November but...

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#108179: Jan 6th 2016 at 12:03:59 PM

Ted Cruz won't win the election, most people I know still hate him for shutting down the government.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#108180: Jan 6th 2016 at 12:18:56 PM

Land Wars: The Oregon Standoff Explained As A Star Wars Opening

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#108181: Jan 6th 2016 at 6:05:11 PM

Biden regrets not running. A bit late Joe.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#108182: Jan 6th 2016 at 7:50:03 PM

He's clearly saying that he regrets it in that he regrets that circumstances were such that he was unable to run, not that he regrets it in that he wishes he had run. The full sentence is "I regret it every day, but it was the right decision for my family and for me."

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
FalseDichotomy from Your mind :o Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#108183: Jan 6th 2016 at 7:57:11 PM

I have a question.

There was an article on the Atlantic's website outlining a major part of Trump's appeal to Republican voters.

tl;dr version is that the GOP's strategy of only looking out for the super-rich, while offering it's middle class voters nothing but lip-service is finally catching up to them.

For better or for worse (worse, definitely worse), Trump has succeeded in taking advantage of the animosity that the aforementioned strategy has generated among voters.

There's been talk of a brokered convention. From what I gathered this is what happens when no primary candidate manages to get the necessary number of delegates to win.

So if Trump were to get the most delegates but fail to get the necessary number (50%+1 according to time), things would go to a brokered convention were the candidate will be selected by special "unpledged delegates" who are free to vote however they see fit. This would be the perfect opportunity to throw Trump under the bus and elect an establishment candidate.

But here's my question:

Even though the GOP would be hurt by a Trump nomination, which would guarantee loosing the election and tarnish the party with a permanent association with Trump and his hate speech, would it hurt the party worse to cheat Trump out of the nomination?

The idea that the GOP doesn't care about what its voters think is a large part of how Trump got his foothold in this race.

If the GOP plays dirty to get rid of Donald "the People's Champ" Trumpnote , wouldn't that just give the idea more credence?

Wouldn't that cause voters to permanently disassociate themselves with the GOP? Or even set the stage for a Trump 2.0 in a future election?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108184: Jan 6th 2016 at 8:09:15 PM

As you noted, and we've discussed before, the Republican Party lies in a festering morass of its own creation. By promising right-wing populism but delivering tribute to the wealthy, it's lost its legitimacy in the eyes of the people who are most angry at the system. Trump has rallied those voters.

If the GOP allows him to take the nomination, they will definitively lose the general election and may also lose control of the Senate and many state/local races as animosity towards Trump poisons down-ticket races.

If the GOP forces him out, he'll run as an independent and fracture the party, handing the Democrats a 2016 White House win even more easily. It is less obvious what might happen in down-ticket elections, though.

If they run too sharply against him in the primary, they'll risk alienating his voters from the GOP entirely. If they don't call him out, they'll risk alienating mainstream voters during the general election.

Watching this makes for some delicious schadenfreude, but it is really not a good sign for the country's politics.

Interestingly, Rachel Maddow pointed out the sharp similarities between Trump's current run and the run of George Wallace in 1968, a Southern populist who won 46 electoral votes as an independent, one of the best such showings in U.S. history, on a platform of pro-segregation and general racial hatred. He failed, but the immense (relative) support for his message inspired Nixon, Barry Goldwater, and Ronald Reagan to form the foundation of movement conservatism, which led inexorably to the Tea Party movement.

edited 6th Jan '16 8:14:39 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
FalseDichotomy from Your mind :o Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#108185: Jan 6th 2016 at 8:28:08 PM

[up] So basically we shouldn't get too full of ourselves because, like a horror movie monster, the conservative movement always comes back.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108186: Jan 6th 2016 at 8:36:45 PM

The sentiment underlying the reactionary, populist extremism that empowers such folks as Wallace and Trump has not gone away and probably will never go away entirely. The problem is that there always seems to be one party shamelessly pandering to it for its votes, which only serves to empower it, and a national media apparatus that loves the "controversy" and so gives it lots of free airtime.

edited 6th Jan '16 8:37:45 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#108187: Jan 6th 2016 at 9:37:22 PM

So what's the general opinion on Hillary and Bernie in this thread?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#108188: Jan 6th 2016 at 9:50:05 PM

Bernie is honest but a one trick pony while Hil is essentially the nominee by default.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#108189: Jan 6th 2016 at 9:54:03 PM

One trick pony?

Also, that tells me literally nothing about her.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#108190: Jan 6th 2016 at 10:05:34 PM

People somehow think Bernie only cares about economics (which is different from focusing on it), and no one is hyped for Hillary but she's a serviceable Democrat who won't fuck the country/world and she's guaranteed to win.

edited 6th Jan '16 10:06:38 PM by Ekuran

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#108191: Jan 6th 2016 at 10:08:04 PM

She's also kind of dishonest, isn't she? That whole email thing and all.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#108192: Jan 6th 2016 at 10:12:25 PM

Government servers are old and they suck, everyone uses private e-mail to actually function but she was "caught" doing it so now Republicans use misinformation and memes to make it seem like she's been hiding evil terrorist plans or whatever.

edited 6th Jan '16 10:12:52 PM by Ekuran

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#108193: Jan 6th 2016 at 10:16:37 PM

I mean, I'm a bit skeptical of Hillary, considering my issues with Bill.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#108194: Jan 6th 2016 at 10:43:08 PM

The email thing was completely manufactured as a drama specifically to make Hillary's support go down. There was a minor scandal when the first guy they tried to replace Boehner with actually said something to that effect on air. So yeah, whatever your misgivings are, you can put the one about emails to rest because it's completely stupid. Literally everyone uses their own email because Congress would never approve spending money to improve/buy newer, secure servers for government purposes. And most of her emails weren't classified until after the fact. (Which appears to be usual for the CIA for some reason? Iunno.)

In any case, even Bill Clinton said he regrets some of his own policies from his presidency. I genuinely like Hillary as a candidate. I think she'll do a good job. But Sanders also seems like a cool guy, and in any case I'll vote for either of them with no questions asked because the Republicans this year is full of men with incredibly regressive policies that I think would torpedo this country, and also Trump. Democrats are the only ones I have faith in this election cycle.

Although I don't think Sanders is technically a Democrat; he ran in Vermont on a state specific third party and listed himself as Independent when running for national office. I suppose it's just semantics at this point, though.

edited 6th Jan '16 10:45:57 PM by AceofSpades

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#108195: Jan 6th 2016 at 11:09:12 PM

Sanders isn't merely "not giving focus" when the questions are specifically on non-economic issues and he turns it back into an economic issue. It's like Graham and turning questions about PP into something about Daesh.

The man doesn't really have a plan outside of economic fields beyond "Keep doing what Obama is doing", which on the foreign policy side is very much "meh", and not always on partisan lines either.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#108196: Jan 6th 2016 at 11:33:33 PM

Foreign policy doesn't tend to be what gets presidents elected, in my observation. Not beyond "we're being tough on terrorists" in my voting history. Or "we're bringing troops home now". American understanding of our foreign ventures tends not to be very nuanced among the voting populace, from what I can tell. I'm including myself in that.

I don't think anyone's saying Sanders focus on economic issues is a bad thing so much as it sort of... blinkers his responses to things that aren't specifically about economics. Granted, you can solve a whole lot of problems with his policies. He does seem to be doing better on addressing the race issue, though.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#108197: Jan 6th 2016 at 11:45:02 PM

[up][up], [up] Does Sanders come across as having a view that every issue can be solved with Economics?

Keep Rolling On
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#108198: Jan 6th 2016 at 11:56:37 PM

[up]From what little I've seen of him, that seems to be the case. IIRC, his opinion on ISIS is that they're caused by global warming and income inequality.

To be fair, according to my Dad, it isn't unreasonable to assume that the weather is making middle easterners really grouchy.

Leviticus 19:34
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#108199: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:44:24 AM

He does seem to think that most problems can be at least alleviated by addressing economics, which isn't entirely wrong as far as I'm concerned. It's just that it's not the whole issue, either.

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#108200: Jan 7th 2016 at 1:12:23 AM

Precisely.

And true, its not what clinches elections, but you have to still have an idea for it when you actually get asked the question without overemphasizing the economic argument (which, while valid, is as already mentioned here...not the whole story).

Why is O'Malley still in the race? He isn't getting any traction...


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