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SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#108126: Jan 5th 2016 at 2:38:37 PM

[up][up][up] Trump's campagin was asked about this, actually. Their response was, "No shit, but this is what's going to happen if we don't do something."

-_-

-_-

-_-

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#108127: Jan 5th 2016 at 2:48:05 PM

Yeah the arrested ranchers aren't connected to Bundy, it's the crazy militia rangers (who the arrest ones seem to want nothing to do with) that are, they're led by his son.

edited 5th Jan '16 2:48:15 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#108128: Jan 5th 2016 at 2:51:20 PM

[up][up] now I am expecting some Mass Effect 3 footage in their next clip, to convince the voters to stop funding the NASA.

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#108129: Jan 5th 2016 at 2:54:31 PM

Wasn't sympathizing that far with them, but I think the assumption floating around is that they were already jailed and released, only to be told "Yeah, you weren't in for long enough". Though now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure if that's true, or if they might have held off of jail-time until they figured out what precisely there sentence will be. If it's the former, it's a raw deal (because it kinda skirts Double Jeopardy), while the latter is just due process taking a while to come due.

My understanding of the situation, thanks in part to a lawyer on another board, goes like this: the ranchers from the original case were found guilty, and had a federally mandated mandatory minimum sentence of 5 years. Their lawyer argued that the penalty was too harsh, got the judge in their case to agree, and the judge sentenced them to just a few months. The government's reaction to that was to jump in and say "Whoa, whoa, whoa, that's bullshit. Regardless of what the judge thinks of the penalty, the law requires it in this case, and he can't go off and decide that he gets to throw out the law because he doesn't like it" and appeal to a higher court about what happened.

The higher court agreed with the government's case, (duh) and since court appeals tend to take a lot of time, by the time that happened the two ranchers were already done with their shortened sentences, and were told they had to go back and serve the remainder of the 5 years.

As for the grazing rights issue, ironically enough that is much, much, cheaper for the local ranchers because it's a federal thing instead of the free market or set by local rate. Link

In 1993, the bureau declined to renew Cliven Bundy’s grazing permits in parts of Nevada that were reserved for a threatened desert tortoise. But Bundy continued grazing his cattle there anyway and refused to pay any fines or fees. He claimed that the land really belonged to him, so why should he have to pay over $1 million in fines?

Now his son has furthered the fight by seizing the Oregon refuge. In a news conference Sunday, Ammon Bundy explained that he was there in protest of the “unconstitutional transactions of land rights and water rights.”

Those transactions, though, can be a pretty good deal, regardless of their constitutionality. According to a 2015 report by the Center for Biological Diversity, the Bureau of Land Management’s fees for grazing cattle on public land are much lower than the fees charged by private landowners, and they’ve only become cheaper in recent years.

In 2012, the bureau’s fees for grazing were 93 percent cheaper than the average market rate in 16 Western states ($1.35 versus $20.10 per AUM, which is a fancy acronym for the amount of land needed to support a cow and her calf for a month1).

The bureau’s fees are so much lower than the market price in part because its fees are set at a flat, national rate and can’t be adjusted to match demand in local markets. Plus, the bureau sets that national grazing price using a formula, rather than any kind of bidding system or market appraisals, as some other federal agencies with higher prices2 do. As a result, in 2014, grazing fees covered only 15 percent of the bureau’s costs to maintain grazing lands. The rest of the cost is made up in federal appropriations and covered by taxpayers.

So in the end, the only argument they have is a bunch of guys with guns standing around saying "The government isn't the boss of me" and shaking their fists.

And to go back to the standoff with Bundys last year, Bundy tried to claim that his family had been working that land since 1877 despite the fact that they only moved there in 1948, and that the land has been government property since 1848, when the US gained that territory from Mexico in war. Link.

Common Conspiracy Myths

“This is a federal land grab of sorts!”

This has been US government property since it was taken from Mexico in 1848, before Nevada was an actual state.

“The Bundy’s have worked and maintained this land since 1877!”

As shown above, this has been US government property since before Bundy’s alleged ancestors began settling here. However, it turns out that Bundy’s “1877” claims was in fact bogus. An investigation by KLAS-TV Las Vegas reveals that Bundy’s parents moved from Arizona to Nevada and bought the 160-acre ranch in 1948, from its previous owners. The Bundy’s wouldn’t begin using this land for their cattle to graze until the 1950’s.

From KTVLA:

Clark County Recorder documents show the 160-acre Bunkerville ranch Bundy calls home was purchased by his parents, David and Bodel Bundy, from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt on Jan. 5, 1948. The purchase included the transfer to the Bundys of certain water rights, including water from the nearby Virgin River. Cliven Bundy was born in 1946.

“Bundy’s great grandfather bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887″

This claim has been repeated numerous times but there appears to be no record of this. Since the Bunkerville allotment is part of federal land it is unlikely that any of the Bundy’s would have ever been sold the rights. This may actually be a conflation of the claimed “pre-emptive” rights, which some have claimed Bundy’s family to have. It would appear that this is nothing more than a subjective belief on the part of the Bundy’s, that their alleged longtime use of federal lands somehow gives them ownership. Furthermore, given that Bundy lost numerous court battles, it’s unlikely that he in fact owns the portion of the land in question.

So yeah, nothing but a bunch of guys hating the Federal Government and dreaming up scenarios to act out on that.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#108130: Jan 5th 2016 at 2:54:33 PM

[up]Mass Effect would be pretty good at convincing people to increase funding, I think.

Leviticus 19:34
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#108131: Jan 5th 2016 at 3:25:34 PM

[[youtube:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e7-7vWWW6Y]]

edited 5th Jan '16 3:25:42 PM by FieldMarshalFry

advancing the front into TV Tropes
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#108132: Jan 5th 2016 at 3:26:26 PM

You only need the stuff after the v=

Oh really when?
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#108133: Jan 5th 2016 at 4:35:01 PM

@rikalous: This year? The sun is indeed hot in America. We saw 90-degree temperatures last month in Florida and it's currently above freezing here in the "Frozen North."

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#108135: Jan 5th 2016 at 5:39:43 PM

Trump is also saying that its unlikely that Cruz is truly an Evangelical, because his dad is Cuban and Cubans are all Catholics.

Of course anyone who has heard Cruz Sr. talk knows he's an Evangelical, and the scary kind at that.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#108136: Jan 5th 2016 at 5:40:17 PM

Trump fails basic fact checking. In other news water is wet and bears shit in the woods.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#108137: Jan 5th 2016 at 5:40:30 PM

The President broke out the Manly Tears. The President is tired of this shit.

First-graders, man.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#108138: Jan 5th 2016 at 5:54:58 PM

Well, that happened.

But then I guess the super-tough Patriots going all "please send food we dun goofed" was going to cause some laughs.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#108139: Jan 5th 2016 at 5:59:17 PM

[up]Was that link supposed to go to something other than a snake asking "please send snacks"?

Incidentally, if they're this bad at outdoorsiness, one could say we did send the wildlife snacks. Darwin style.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#108140: Jan 5th 2016 at 6:02:07 PM

No, it was meant to go there. It's a joke photoshop of the Gadsen flag to reflect the Militia's recent plea for snacks and other food.

edited 5th Jan '16 6:02:22 PM by Deadbeatloser22

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#108141: Jan 5th 2016 at 6:10:01 PM

Considering how thick they are how hard would it be to send them snacks laced with something so that they'd all fall asleep and the FBI could arrest them?

Quick, CIA-NSA-MI 6-GCHQ, whichever one of you monitors TV tropes, please forward that idea on to the FBI.

edited 5th Jan '16 6:11:17 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#108142: Jan 5th 2016 at 6:12:16 PM

Do we want another Moscow then?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#108143: Jan 5th 2016 at 6:22:51 PM

Man, never thought I'd see Obama cry tears of rage.

edited 5th Jan '16 6:23:10 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#108144: Jan 5th 2016 at 6:25:48 PM

Can't the police surround the place and prevent people from getting food to them?

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#108145: Jan 5th 2016 at 6:28:12 PM

Problem is they want a publicised siege to feed their oppression narrative.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#108146: Jan 5th 2016 at 6:29:06 PM

How about just shutting off the water supply? Then they'd have no water to drink, and the toilets won't work.

Oh wait, rednecks aren't housebroken, never mind...

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#108147: Jan 5th 2016 at 6:29:37 PM

It wouldn't be a siege. Just starve them out and arrest them after they surrender.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#108148: Jan 5th 2016 at 6:41:59 PM

That's kind of how a siege has worked for centuries.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#108149: Jan 5th 2016 at 6:45:15 PM

In modern times it's usually used to imply storming the castle. I think that's what they want.

LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#108150: Jan 5th 2016 at 6:49:46 PM

I say make it so that the only programs on their TV(s) are European gay films, MSNBC and Saudi Soap Operas.

It'll hurt the much faster & deeper than lack of food.

edited 5th Jan '16 6:50:07 PM by LogoP

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.

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