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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Aquaconda (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#108101: Jan 5th 2016 at 11:41:57 AM

That is both sad and hilarious.

So let me get this straight. These farmers are holding up a government building to so the government can give up sovereignty over its land as well as release convicts who willingly turned themselves in?

edited 5th Jan '16 11:45:01 AM by Aquaconda

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#108102: Jan 5th 2016 at 11:42:27 AM

It's kind of both; the ranchers thing was basically just the catalyst for something they had apparently been planning for a long time.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108103: Jan 5th 2016 at 11:45:29 AM

Yeah, it's sort of like how whenever a terrorist group takes hostages or whatever, they start demanding the release of all sorts of "political prisoners". It's part of the standard spiel to give themselves a veneer of legitimacy. Of course, they also want a few million dollars, just to cover expenses.

edited 5th Jan '16 11:45:44 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#108104: Jan 5th 2016 at 11:48:45 AM

Last I heard they're also demanding the right to pillage the natural resources of government-held lands, forests, and reserves.

edited 5th Jan '16 11:49:15 AM by carbon-mantis

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108105: Jan 5th 2016 at 11:59:00 AM

Their philosophy is that of the Sovereign Citizen movement, which holds that the Federal government is fundamentally illegitimate: that the only sovereign entity is is the individual him or herself. No state apparatus can compel an individual to do anything against his or her wishes.

[down] Thank you, Captain Obvious.

edited 5th Jan '16 12:06:24 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#108106: Jan 5th 2016 at 11:59:50 AM

Which is dumb

Oh really when?
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#108107: Jan 5th 2016 at 12:07:22 PM

Murder rates are rising in American cities. But it is not because of some Ferguson effect. Apparently a lot of new guns with high capacity magazines have gotten out on the streets,not sure how, and the market for drugs has expanded,causing increased gang warfare.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#108108: Jan 5th 2016 at 12:07:38 PM

They are asking for money too? That is new to me

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#108109: Jan 5th 2016 at 12:08:04 PM

And yet it is only the second most stupid politic thing I have read today. note 

"You can reply to this Message!"
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#108110: Jan 5th 2016 at 12:28:33 PM

[up][up]

I think the money portion was part of his example, not this particular instance.

Also, with the ranchers, one thing worth noting is that they're being put back in jail because they served less time than the Federal statute for the crime demanded, after being out for a year or two. That's a significant difference, and I'll agree that it's a raw deal, but this was (unfortunately) the earliest it could be resolved.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108111: Jan 5th 2016 at 12:30:38 PM

And the statute in question was originally enacted under a Republican administration to penalize domestic terrorism, so yeah.

edited 5th Jan '16 12:30:44 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#108112: Jan 5th 2016 at 1:47:07 PM

[up]

Wasn't sympathizing that far with them, but I think the assumption floating around is that they were already jailed and released, only to be told "Yeah, you weren't in for long enough". Though now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure if that's true, or if they might have held off of jail-time until they figured out what precisely their sentence would be. If it's the former, it's a raw deal (because it kinda skirts Double Jeopardy), while the latter is just due process taking a while to come due.

edited 5th Jan '16 2:31:42 PM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108113: Jan 5th 2016 at 1:54:20 PM

It's a little of both. They appear to have been sentenced incorrectly at first, with the sentence later overturned on appeal and reissued. I don't mean to imply that this is in any way not-sucky for the ranchers in question.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#108114: Jan 5th 2016 at 1:55:07 PM

Their philosophy is that of the Sovereign Citizen movement, which holds that the Federal government is fundamentally illegitimate: that the only sovereign entity is is the individual him or herself. No state apparatus can compel an individual to do anything against his or her wishes.

Lol, I am reminded of my brother's argument that the police have "a monopoly on force". Yeah, that'll go over well. What does that even mean? That only the police are allowed to use force... to arrest people?

But besides that, the idea that the state can't compel an individual to do anything against their wishes means that police would be useless. Who would police society then?

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#108115: Jan 5th 2016 at 1:56:21 PM

[up][up] Those Bundy ranchers are going through a harsh time!? Someone! Quick! Fetch me the world's smallest violin!

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#108116: Jan 5th 2016 at 1:59:50 PM

[up]Here ya go.

http://www.indiabookofrecords.in/smallest-playable-violin/

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#108117: Jan 5th 2016 at 2:03:38 PM

Lol, I am reminded of my brother's argument that the police have "a monopoly on force". Yeah, that'll go over well. What does that even mean? That only the police are allowed to use force... to arrest people?

That is precisely what it means. In most civilizations, the enforcers of law are granted monopoly of force, which means that only they are entrusted to use violence responsibly. The responsibility of the citizenry is to contact the police/knights/guardsmen so that they can bring in their weapons and resolve the situation. Different countries have different standards when it comes to forbidding ownership of deadly weapons but nearly all serve the same purpose: keeping force squarely in the domain of the law.

Many countries have special circumstances that permit citizenry to use violence - self-defense, for instance - but outside those circumstances, the legitimate use of violence remains solely in the domain of the law. If a police sniper shoots a bank robber through a window during a hostage situation, that's a legitimate use of force performed by legal authority. If YOU do it, it's vigilante justice and it's a crime.

edited 5th Jan '16 2:05:30 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108118: Jan 5th 2016 at 2:05:21 PM

Yep. Governments are, in fact, instituted largely for the purpose of consolidating the right to apply force in defense of the society. That's the whole point. That complaint is sort of like yelling at the Sun because it has the audacity to be hot.

edited 5th Jan '16 2:06:20 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#108119: Jan 5th 2016 at 2:06:10 PM

I find the people who complain about the monopoly of force the sort of people who would probably shoot a minority on their doorstep.

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#108120: Jan 5th 2016 at 2:06:59 PM

[up] Indeed. "Dag nab this fool gubmint that won't let me shoot those lousy n-words 'cuz they lookit me funny."

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#108121: Jan 5th 2016 at 2:09:33 PM

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST THOSE BUNDY PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING AND THE SUN IS HOT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION!?!?

I AM GOING TO NEED MORE THAN THE WORLD'S SMALLEST VIOLING FOR THIS.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#108122: Jan 5th 2016 at 2:10:14 PM

Flea circus violin perhaps would be more suitable.

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#108123: Jan 5th 2016 at 2:14:13 PM

I saw Trump's clip. The "illegal migrants attacking the US-Mexican border" sequence was frightening, I will give him that. All these people rushing on the fences...you should really build a wall here.

Too bad the filmed sequence actually occurred between Spain and Morocco.

rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#108124: Jan 5th 2016 at 2:33:43 PM

*glances at the December sky* False alarm, the sun is not in fact hot. At least not in 'murrica, and we don't need to care about the southern hemisphere.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#108125: Jan 5th 2016 at 2:34:24 PM

@Aszur

The ranchers that Fighteer mentioned were the ones convicted of Arson, not the Bundy Bunch, and it's due to the weirdness surrounding their jail sentence which even I sympathize with (again, if it was a matter of "they just got out, then were told 'yeah, you weren't in long enough' and put back inside", as opposed to the courts hammering out the details then assigning jail time).

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"

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