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Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#107526: Dec 25th 2015 at 9:31:48 AM

Interested if that's correlation or causation, that people who believe they might be a target for robbery are more likely to own guns.

Open carry just feels like needless dick-waving to me. Remember: even the wild west had you check your guns when you came into town.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#107527: Dec 25th 2015 at 9:44:16 AM

[up]That was mostly due to skylarking cowboys. They'd been on the trail for months, and when they arrived in town and got paid, the first thing they did was get rip-roaring drunk, and start shooting at random just for shits and giggles.

It goes without saying that such behavior is universally frowned upon.

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Matues Since: Sep, 2011
#107528: Dec 25th 2015 at 11:50:44 AM

I think being unnerved by someone openly carrying a gun isn't unreasonable.

I mean, it's not like it's something with more than one real use. Guns are made explicitly to kill and hurt things. Wearing one openly is a power statement: I have the power to kill.

Being afraid of that isn't unreasonable. It's practical. I have worked at convenience stores; if someone walk in openly carrying a gun I would automatically be on edge. People don't carry guns just because. They carry them to use them; you have no way of knowing what use they have in mind.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#107529: Dec 25th 2015 at 12:16:37 PM

There are US states that allow open carry and don't allow concealed carry without going through bureaucracy, so there will be people using OC because it is easier.

You're more likely to be robbed by wearing headphones and earphones than you'd be while open carrying, since those means nice expensive phone on a tool unaware of his surroundings over someone who will shoot if you try anything stupid. Muggers don't go after people who know they will fight back, the attempt to scare and intimidate people to give them stuff and move on.

Also if your plan is being unarmed and assaulting a guy with a weapon to steal his it isn't only unlikely you'll succeed it is a stupid plan save the dumbest criminal would try to get a gun this way instead of getting one in the black market.

The latest knife attacks in Israel highlighted how stupid it is to go after an armed person with the intent of killing or stealing their guns, it didn't went well for all Palestinians going after the Israelis. Those who were armed and shot back at their attackers lived, the attackers didn't.

If OCs were at such risks you'd hear them being attacked more often instead of the otherwise, the cops walking alone would also be attacked more often.

Stealing guns from home is also something that isn't a sure way either, most gun owner houses don't have obnoxious signs with "Protected by the second amendment" and such, they are locked in hard safes or hidden in places a mugger or robber would need to go through a lot of valuables more attractive than the gun itself and if the gun isn't on its owner instead of a hidden place.

edited 25th Dec '15 1:55:18 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#107530: Dec 26th 2015 at 6:56:32 AM

About the only time I'd be comfortable with someone open-carrying a gun is if they're dressed in hunting camo or something. I live in a big hunting area, so that's a sight I'm pretty much used to seeing - if someone strolled into the post office with a rifle slung over their back, I'd just ask them to put it in their car until after, no different than a lit cigarette or a non-purse dog.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#107531: Dec 26th 2015 at 8:59:39 AM

It depends on how they handle the gun. If it was slung over his shoulder, I personally wouldn't think much of it. But I remember one time when I was working in the gun shop:

A car pulled up and parked at the curb. A guy got out, reached into the back seat, pulled out a shotgun, racked the slide, and marched right into the store with the gun held at the port-arms ready position, like a duck hunter looking for a winging bird to unload on. I saw my co-worker's hand slide towards the pistol he carried in a shoulder holster...

The guy came up to the counter and said, "I need this fixed."

My co-worker said, "Do you know how close you came to getting shot just now?"

The guy said, "Huh? What?"

If he had left the chamber open, and carried it in a more relaxed posture, with the muzzle pointed at the ground, there wouldn't have been a problem. But Mister Oblivious wasn't thinking about safe gun handling, or the impression he was giving off.

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ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#107532: Dec 26th 2015 at 9:06:45 AM

[up]

Exactly. Open-Carry without a significant amount of training (de-escalation, presence, etc.) is a recipe for disaster because of the idiots who indulged in way too many '80s action movies. So for the good owners, just look at it as those idiots being Why We Cant Have Nice Things.

edited 26th Dec '15 9:07:27 AM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#107533: Dec 26th 2015 at 9:46:45 AM

It doesn't require a significant amount of training it just requires the ability to not be an asshat. Something you will not acquire at a 3 hour gun safety class.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#107534: Dec 26th 2015 at 10:50:20 AM

I've heard most gun stores want a gun holstered at a minimum when you're bringing it in, if not in a case.

I'm baaaaaaack
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#107535: Dec 26th 2015 at 12:47:14 PM

[up]Yes. The reason being that you don't want to risk making the people in the store think that you're going to rob them, or else you'll be very, very dead. So, rule of thumb when bringing guns into a gun store: keep them in a case, or at the very least holstered.

Leviticus 19:34
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#107536: Dec 26th 2015 at 2:02:08 PM

That said, most gun stores also have a rule that if you walk in with a gun concealed, it stays concealed until you leave - converting a gun from concealed to open is way too easy to misunderstand.

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#107537: Dec 26th 2015 at 7:30:26 PM

A car pulled up and parked at the curb. A guy got out, reached into the back seat, pulled out a shotgun, racked the slide, and marched right into the store with the gun held at the port-arms ready position, like a duck hunter looking for a winging bird to unload on. I saw my co-worker's hand slide towards the pistol he carried in a shoulder holster...

The guy came up to the counter and said, "I need this fixed."

My co-worker said, "Do you know how close you came to getting shot just now?"

The guy said, "Huh? What?"

If he had left the chamber open, and carried it in a more relaxed posture, with the muzzle pointed at the ground, there wouldn't have been a problem. But Mister Oblivious wasn't thinking about safe gun handling, or the impression he was giving off.

Sounds like a good description of how Open Carry might make it very difficult to tell the intention of people, and could potentially result in mistakes. After all, it doesn't sounds like there's much way to differentiate between someone who's about to go postal on your ass and someone who's as dumb and oblivious as so much humanity is. wink

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#107538: Dec 26th 2015 at 9:18:02 PM

Open carry isn't going around with your gun on your hands like it is a cell phone.

Had he walked in with the shotgun slung across his shoulders no one in the store would bat an eye.

Inter arma enim silent leges
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#107539: Dec 26th 2015 at 10:42:28 PM

Things like that are why I think we need Gun Ed before people are allowed to own firearms. It's not about restricting people who handle their weapons properly. It's about making sure the dumbasses don't make lethal mistakes.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#107540: Dec 27th 2015 at 6:11:27 AM

The BBC, 26th December: A fire at Bill Clinton's childhood home, Arson suspected

A fire at former US President Bill Clinton's childhood home in Arkansas is believed to have been caused by arson, officials say. They say the blaze in the city of Hope slightly damaged one interior room before it was extinguished. Arson is suspected because accelerant was detected at the scene. Graffiti is also being examined.

Mr Clinton spent his first years in the house, which was designated a National Historic Site in 2011.

Hope Police Department chief JR Wilson said a motorist spotted flames early on Friday, according to the Associated Press news agency. Mr Wilson said firefighters saw flames 8ft (2.4m) high on one side of the property when they arrived. Bill Clinton was America's 42nd president, serving from 1993 to 2001.

Keep Rolling On
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#107541: Dec 27th 2015 at 6:23:06 AM

The man who landed a gyrocopter on the lawn of the U.S. Capitol has picked an opponent to target in his bid for a seat in Congress.

It’s Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the chair of the Democratic National Committee who also represents a district in Florida stretching roughly from Weston to Miami.

Douglas Hughes, 62, of Ruskin, Fla., in a court filing Wednesday declared that he planned “strong ground game for his campaign” and would “not engage in aerial civil disobedience.”…

storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#107542: Dec 27th 2015 at 6:57:08 AM

But how about somebody carrying a plain old .38 revolver in a belt holster? Would you immediately have a heart palpitation over that?

I get neverous whenever I see even police carrying, so yes. (Well not literally palpitations, but I don't think you meant that.)

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#107543: Dec 27th 2015 at 3:05:27 PM

well it has been a while since I last checked on this threat and holyshitnearly30newpages!

back on guns eh? well I maintain my position of "them Yanks be crazy" and that guns are FUCKING SCARY! if I saw someone with an open carry firearm, any kind, I would be scared, why would you carry that if you're not planning on using it to harm someone?

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pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#107544: Dec 27th 2015 at 3:08:54 PM

I said it before, and I'll say it again: Hoplophobia.

If you've got issues, I'd recommend you seek professional help. But please don't force your personal neuroses onto others.

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tryrar Since: Sep, 2010
#107545: Dec 27th 2015 at 3:10:25 PM

[up]....please don't just dismiss worrying about guns as hoplophobia. That just seems rude and non-constructive

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#107546: Dec 27th 2015 at 3:11:49 PM

Maybe, but it's equally rude to go "Eek! Gun! Eww, bad!" And frankly I'm tired of hearing it.

On the issue of guns and gun control, I hear a lot of sage advice being dispensed by people who have never lived in the US, which renders them ill-equipped to judge the situation since they have little understanding of American culture and the American mindset. And all they know about guns is based on what they’ve seen in the movies and on television (which is mostly bullshit, by the way.) So their anti-gun, socialist solutions simply wouldn't work here in the United States.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, my inner caveman feels the need to go bash something with a rock.

edited 27th Dec '15 3:22:10 PM by pwiegle

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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#107547: Dec 27th 2015 at 3:34:14 PM

I love how you throw being anti gun and being Socalist in together, despite the two having no links at all and being entirely separate points. Yes there's a limit on foreign input, there's a reason I never stated my reaction to seeing someone with a gun (it's heavily based on the legal and cultur environment I live in and that's not the US one), but the fact that some foreigners are socialists has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Hell Socalism is inherently anti-gun control on some levels, as once you go far left enough you're talking about freedom, local militias, and arming the working class against their oppressive masters. Even within the spectrum of standard socialism you have a wide variety of gun control types because Socalism has nothing to do with gun control.

Short version: Socalism isn't connected to gun control, you acting like it is makes you look like a reactionary idiot who doesn't know what he's fighting against.

edited 27th Dec '15 3:41:24 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#107548: Dec 27th 2015 at 3:40:03 PM

[up][up] I think the Ausies were almost as pro gun as us before they got rid of the things. Of corse now they are the most smug of all, to the point where gun control is actually starting to impact relations between the two of us.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#107549: Dec 27th 2015 at 3:42:24 PM

Okay, so speaking as a former sailor who passed armed watchstanders on a near hourly basis for five years, a guy whose roommate keeps loaded handguns around, and a guy perpetually mulling over the idea of another term of service, I'm almost certainly not hoplophobic. And the idea of dim, middle-aged civilians who missed some sort of train in their lives being allowed to openly carry firearms under most circumstances is loony. At present, we wouldn't know whether they're jumpy, easily spun-up, going through a messy divorce, or chronically being made into the world's butt monkeys, to say nothing of other sorts of mental illness or personalities that shouldn't be armed. All of those things suck, but it doesn't follow that they should be allowed to endanger others by walking around with a ballistic crutch, or that they'd be unfairly singled out by a law forbidding their behavior. Openly carrying a semi-automatic rifle or even a sidearm may be about some legitimately-felt fear for the holder, but it introduces more into those who see it, and I'd be willing to bet that that's the point.

edited 27th Dec '15 3:44:51 PM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#107550: Dec 27th 2015 at 3:42:52 PM

guns, are there, to KILL PEOPLE! there is no other use! over here we would be worried if someone was carrying a knife around as there is no use for it outside of hurting someone with it! why the hell are guns not the same?!?!

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