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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#107501: Dec 24th 2015 at 6:31:29 AM

French ex-President Sarkozy was the son of a Hungarian aristocrat. It all makes sense now.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#107502: Dec 24th 2015 at 6:59:34 AM

[up][up] On the bright side, at least Hungary doesn't treat women like second class citizens.

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#107503: Dec 24th 2015 at 8:11:57 AM

[up]Nope, just the Roma.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#107504: Dec 24th 2015 at 8:28:27 AM

That's far from just them, everyone tends to treat the Roma like shit.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#107505: Dec 24th 2015 at 9:52:48 AM

Of course, but that doesn't excuse Hungary.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#107507: Dec 24th 2015 at 11:00:59 PM

What do you guys think of this open carry law? is it safer to know someone is armed than not? I dont think it would actually make much of a difference in anything other than making sensible people more afraid of going outside. Also is Downey the first actor to be pardoned by the governor because he's rich and famous?

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#107508: Dec 24th 2015 at 11:41:22 PM

[up]When you show off your weapon in public, you're signalling that you have something worth stealing, and that if someone else wants it, they better get the first strike in.

Contrary to popular believe, most muggers don't actually want to kill people. Which is why they generally threaten you to hand over the cash instead of just erasing a potential witness.

If if it is more likely than not that any given person is armed, and the reasons for the mugger to ply his business aren't gone yet, then instead of threatening their victims, they've been given a serious incentive to just shoot them in the back of the head and loot the body instead.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#107509: Dec 24th 2015 at 11:45:34 PM

Guns are valuable as fuck. Open carry is like wearing your good jewelry around.

Should also be said that keeping your gun in your nightstand is just asking for your house to get broken into.

Oh really when?
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#107510: Dec 25th 2015 at 3:20:50 AM

Also open carry in a store makes things complicated for the staff, as it means they're not able to easily determine if an armed guy coming in is robbing them, or possibly even react properly to some angry guy berating them at the till.

edited 25th Dec '15 3:21:03 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#107511: Dec 25th 2015 at 6:30:13 AM

Why would you even need to openly carry a gun while walking around the street? To me, it screams dick-waving born from insecurity.

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#107512: Dec 25th 2015 at 7:10:54 AM

The problem with those assessments is that you're zeroing in on the gun and ignoring the man carrying it. Take in the whole picture, including the person's dress, behavior, and attitude. If he looks and acts like a scumbag or a gang-banger, then yeah, he's probably up to no good. But if he looks like a decent enough fellow, there's no reason to suspect that he's about to go postal on your ass.

Open carry is not an advertisement that you're rich or that you're begging to be attacked. It's a message to the effect: "It would be best if you don't make trouble." A man carrying a gun is advertising that he can handle himself, but any sane and reasonable person prefers peace and civility to violence. (And I've got a news flash for ya: that includes the overwhelming majority of gun owners.)

Try to curb your hoplophobia. It irks me when people automatically assume Gun = Bad.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#107513: Dec 25th 2015 at 7:13:58 AM

How is carrying something valuable that won't help you if surprised not providing an incentive for someone to mug you?

Also considering how belligerent customers can often get at shops, there is a risk with staff bring abused.

edited 25th Dec '15 7:16:38 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#107514: Dec 25th 2015 at 7:16:12 AM

Honestly, to me what open carry signifies is "This idiot isn't good enough with guns and gun safety to get a concealed carry permit. He's probably going to shoot someone by accident and has no idea what he's doing."

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#107515: Dec 25th 2015 at 7:22:59 AM

Looks like a decent enough fellow, huh? What, like this dude?

Extreme example aside, there is a good enough reason to suspect a "decent enough fellow" to go postal on my ass. Open carry is advertising that one can "handle oneself" and that one is going to handle everyone else, because a random assault/burglary he thinks his gun can stop is like his dream come true. We've had "shot burglar fantasies" expressed in this very thread.

Gun = Bad. Period. Period at the end of that period. A gun is a tool meant solely and exclusively for harm. It's not like carrying a kitchen knife that at least has other applicances, though I'd be wary of someone just having one in their hands for no reason whatsoever.

Besides, if you really want to argue for self-defense, concealed carry is so much more beneficial. What kind of braindead mugger will let you draw your gun when he's aiming his at you? At least with concealed carry, you can pretend you're taking out your wallet or something, then draw the gun. It's not much more useful unless you're Ocelot, but it's better than getting shot the moment you reach the holster.

edited 25th Dec '15 7:26:37 AM by Luminosity

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#107516: Dec 25th 2015 at 7:26:13 AM

The problem with those assessments is that you're zeroing in on the gun and ignoring the man carrying it. Take in the whole picture, including the person's dress, behavior, and attitude

Because we all know that people can reliably be judged by external appearances, and that people looking to do something illegal never mask their actions or make any attempt to present a false front to make people less suspicious of them.

We also know that decent enough looking people never have anything going on in their lives, whether it be alcohol or drug habits, stressful situations like divorces, losing their job, the death of relatives, that might make them act irrationally, cause them to snap in anger, etc.

We need all the good guys with guns we can get! Of course, every bad guy with a gun was a good guy with a gun right up until they committed the act that made them a bad guy with a gun... hmm... I wonder if there's any way to deal with that conundrum.

edited 25th Dec '15 7:49:24 AM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#107517: Dec 25th 2015 at 7:39:00 AM

The answer is clear. If they're black you shoot on sight. If they're white then they're just a red blooded American exercising their freedom.

edited 25th Dec '15 7:39:12 AM by Kostya

LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#107518: Dec 25th 2015 at 8:04:09 AM

I know it's probably Values Dissonance speaking, but if I saw a guy casually strolling around with a Desert Eagle in his hand, I wouldn't think of him as anything else but bad news. Appearance be damned.

It seems like something out of GTA.

edited 25th Dec '15 8:09:00 AM by LogoP

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#107519: Dec 25th 2015 at 8:14:22 AM

A Desert Eagle in his hand, yes, I'd definitely agree. But how about somebody carrying a plain old .38 revolver in a belt holster? Would you immediately have a heart palpitation over that?

The gun is an inanimate object; it's not going to attack anybody on its own. I'm just saying, look at the overall picture and make an informed decision. Be aware, but don't panic, and don't jump to conclusions.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#107520: Dec 25th 2015 at 8:26:37 AM

A guy with a pistol in his hand is an entirely different issue than a pistol in a holster.

Leviticus 19:34
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#107521: Dec 25th 2015 at 8:43:13 AM

To be blunt, the idea of having a gun out in the open around your belt or something as some kind of sign that a man can "handle himself" strikes me as some serious bullshit cowboy bravado, typical of americans, that is just begging to blow up in your face.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#107522: Dec 25th 2015 at 8:44:00 AM

I smell bad arguments. Smells like gunpowder.

Anyway, re: Open carrying of guns:

I'd suggest that muggers, like most people, are risk adverse. So, they likely would avoid mugging someone who has a gun. What this means though is that they'll just target someone who doesn't. So while as an individual, displaying "hey I'm armed target someone else" might be helpful, for society as a whole, it's a zero sum game.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#107523: Dec 25th 2015 at 9:01:41 AM

Statistically, if you have a gun on you or in your home, you are more likely to be robbed. Why? Because guns are big money items that robbers want because they can be traded for quick cash. Wearing one might as well be a sign that says "Rob me and/or my house." There's always a risk in robbing someone, but knowing they have something good on display makes theft more likely, not less.

This is backed up by crime statistics that point to guns making people a target for crime.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#107524: Dec 25th 2015 at 9:04:31 AM

I'm not sure that follows. It's possible that owning a gun and being robbed have a common cause, aka having money, not that owning a gun causes robberies.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#107525: Dec 25th 2015 at 9:05:32 AM

[up][up]I would very much like to see these statistics. Can you provide a source?

Didn't think so.

edited 25th Dec '15 8:44:00 PM by pwiegle

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