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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#107101: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:33:03 PM

But my point is that it isn't. It doesn't matter the political climate, anyone who feels they are getting screwed, regardless if that is legally the case, will revolt at that idea unless they have their hand held and are ensured they aren't.

There is no single point solution to this.

[up]This is why I say you aren't arguing on the merits, you are arguing because it helps you politically. It's not up to you to force the opposition to change. It's up to them. Forcing that change only increases the siege mentality.

edited 17th Dec '15 12:34:23 PM by FFShinra

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#107102: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:35:06 PM

And I keep pointing out to you that your objection makes no sense. Because in a direct democracy system, a MAXIMUM of 49.999% of people will feel screwed, whereas in the current system, well over 50% can potentially feel screwed, so the "you can't let the people feel screwed!" argument MAKES. NO. SENSE.

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#107103: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:35:48 PM

Who said anything about making rational sense? I'm merely explaining what will happen when you do something. The people are emotional not rational.

And thats also why I think we need to have a multiparty system. A major part of the getting screwed bit is because people have to hitch their wagons to one of two parties who get all the power if they win, be it legislative or executive. At least with coalition building they can blame their party instead.

edited 17th Dec '15 12:37:16 PM by FFShinra

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#107104: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:36:12 PM

Okay. But they feel the same way now.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#107106: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:39:10 PM

I'll be honest: if the Democrats adopted the same insular thought-bubble mentality that the Republicans have today, I would not want them able to hold onto their power without changing.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#107107: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:40:03 PM

My point and only point is, in a vacuum of where we are, changing nothing else, if we changed to popular vote as a method of determining the president, that would be superior from a policy determination.

Please argue only against that. I can't tell what you're trying to argue here, because you keep dodging the discussion.

[up] I do not support the policies of dipshit!Tomu

(I'm allowed to call him a dipshit because he's me)

edited 17th Dec '15 12:41:23 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#107109: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:43:18 PM

[up][up]It seems the argument is based on a kneejerk populist reaction to "having their power decreased", but that has never been a cogent reason to oppose a change.

[up] Oh, really? So we're going to stop trying to depose Assad, now? That's big news — one wonders when it'll make the major media.

edited 17th Dec '15 12:44:32 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#107110: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:43:43 PM

[up][up]Bound to happen. US can't cash the check its mouth made, so it had to back down.

[up]How is that big news? It became clear the US wasn't going to do anything in 2013. It was all over the news then. Now it's simply a confirmation of what everyone knows.

edited 17th Dec '15 12:45:21 PM by FFShinra

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#107111: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:44:56 PM

So, getting off topic, apparently Samantha Bee and her hubby are running fake presidential adds? There was a joke Cruz add attacking Fiorina because of dogs? It was hilarious. Saw it on You Tube

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#107112: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:45:09 PM

[up][up] Eh, we could, but not without Congress backing a full-scale invasion and occupation. As it stands, the civil war against Assad merely empowers ISIL.

edited 17th Dec '15 12:45:14 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#107113: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:46:44 PM

What about the consequences thus far? Are we going to just leave things the way they are or actually try doing something constructive?

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#107114: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:47:28 PM

Because Assad willed it so. Despite the media and it's scare quotes, there actually was a moderate opposition. After 2013, when they realized they had no one to help them, they either fled, surrendered, or joined more radical outfits. There is a window for everything.

[up]Part of Kerry's statement was to keep the Russians happy enough so we could do so. Including eliminating Daesh, stopping the refugee swarm, getting some kind of post-war paradigm in place. Assad will never rule all of Syria again.

edited 17th Dec '15 12:48:28 PM by FFShinra

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#107115: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:48:34 PM

Welp. my opinion started a whole argument that seems to have ended in mostly agreement?? I think. My main point was always that an individuals vote for president (Note that I wasn't thinking we ought to change anything other than the vote, because the House and the Senate are indeed vital for a balance of power) in order that my vote matters just as much as some guy's in Wyoming.

The balance of power here being to balance it in favor of individuals. Because an individual's right matters more than the states for me, in this case. I was also not under the impression that it would become a vital voting issue for anyone any time soon. Not many people seem to understand how the EC works, and it's functioning in mostly the way it was designed to, with very few hiccups. Like I said, it's outdated, not obviously broken in any way.

edited 17th Dec '15 12:48:52 PM by AceofSpades

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#107116: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:48:37 PM

[up][up]Unless we do want to have a proxy war against Russia, we need to cooperate with them against ISIL, and that means bowing to realpolitik and leaving Assad alone.

edited 17th Dec '15 12:48:53 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#107117: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:50:20 PM

[up]See edit. Don't lecture me on foreign affairs.

And it doesn't end the proxy war, just the one with Russia itself in Syria.

edited 17th Dec '15 12:50:58 PM by FFShinra

Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#107118: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:50:34 PM

edited 17th Dec '15 12:53:21 PM by Xopher001

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#107119: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:51:19 PM

You do know there is a refugee crisis because of this war, yes?

And yes, its a swarm. Whole nations are getting swamped.

edited 17th Dec '15 12:51:41 PM by FFShinra

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#107120: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:52:00 PM

We're already not doing anything, thanks to the non-interventionist sentiment currently in America.

Ironically those are the same people who bitch about the refugee crisis, and say something should be done about it.

edited 17th Dec '15 12:52:55 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#107121: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:53:53 PM

[up]Which irks me to no end. I hate the ostrich approach. It's easier practically to handle the refugees but easier politically to end the war causing them to flee. I just wish we'd choose one.

edited 17th Dec '15 12:54:48 PM by FFShinra

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#107122: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:56:45 PM

The thing is America in general is content to sit on its ass, we only get involved when it directly affects us.

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#107123: Dec 17th 2015 at 12:58:19 PM

Yes I know. Something else I hate about American politics, especially when its usually married to American Exceptionalism rhetoric.

But I can assure you it will affect us. It already is with San Bernardino. Other effects are inbound.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#107124: Dec 17th 2015 at 1:01:37 PM

I don't like the ostrich approach, but a lot of our interventions just seem to make things worse.

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#107125: Dec 17th 2015 at 1:02:48 PM

Thats usually because we don't know how to plan once the flashy part of the initial invasion is over. Our cultural lack of trust in government means they tend to just let contractors handle everything.

We did it right once upon a time though, so I don't think its out of our capability. But the lesson of Iraq shouldn't be not to intervene. It should be to have a plan afterwards that doesn't set unrealistic deadlines and expectations.

edited 17th Dec '15 1:03:45 PM by FFShinra


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