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LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#106901: Dec 16th 2015 at 1:36:17 PM

Is he? Obama's arguably one of our greatest presidents with mostly fantastic ideas. He's just faced one of the stiffest and most dogmatic oppositions in possibly ever and can't get things done.

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#106902: Dec 16th 2015 at 1:36:30 PM

[up][up] That's a pretty deluded (Fox News Kool-Aid) point of view.

edited 16th Dec '15 1:36:35 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#106903: Dec 16th 2015 at 1:37:47 PM

From my perspective anyone who believes Hillary is a sincere, honest woman who really wants to help the country is watching too much MSNBC.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#106904: Dec 16th 2015 at 1:38:12 PM

On Sesame Credit: WOW. That is amazingly dystopian. Like, so dystopian that the dystopia I'm writing about already has a similar system that I'm now going to modify to make more like it.

Leviticus 19:34
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#106905: Dec 16th 2015 at 1:39:40 PM

I think that's no longer very clear-cut. We are living in an age where there are politicians/entrepreneurs who know that what they are doing is all kinds of wrong, but simply chose to not give a crap and carry on doing it anyways. Mostly motivated by vanity, powerlust and cold, hard cash.

Yes. I honestly do believe even donald Trump believes he is doing the right thing. Why would I not?

he has lived his entire life completly sheltered without any hardship whatsoever, where education and meeting other people were a luxury always to others, never to him. To him, "others" came naturally and they were always there to praise him.

He describes a million dollars as a "small loan". He describes what he does as a monumental task. He is delusional, molded by a sheltered enviroment and spoiled by an infinitude of wealth and expectations crafted by himself and his surroundings of sex, money, power and glory.

The only logical result of such an enviroment, is Donald Trump. A man who has a clear, precise, and wrong view of how to make others happy based on what he knows (which is not much)

But he does not view himself as evil.

edited 16th Dec '15 1:41:13 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#106906: Dec 16th 2015 at 1:40:23 PM

[up] While I have a few of my own misgivings about Clinton, nor do I think she's completely altruistic, she's currently the relevant candidate who seems the best fit for the job. Evangelical types like I've heard Cruz is or Carson was make me nervous on principle (I've always felt mixing religion and government too closely is a bad idea) and Trump stopped being a valid choice after the "go after their families" bit, if not before.

The way I look at it, if Hillary gets elected, which I think is now likely than not, then there will be a Republican controlled congress keeping her in check in the immediate future by gainsaying anything and everything she tries to do. If a conservative gets elected, that same Republican congress will do near anything they want in that immediate future.

Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#106907: Dec 16th 2015 at 1:41:55 PM

"Is he? Obama's arguably one of our greatest presidents with mostly fantastic ideas. He's just faced one of the stiffest and most dogmatic oppositions in possibly ever and can't get things done."

Well, we can at least agree that it's arguable.

One might observe that truly great presidents manage to get things done despite opposition. And I really think Lincoln takes the prize for "most dogmatic opposition" ever.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#106908: Dec 16th 2015 at 1:43:07 PM

Lincoln went to war.

I cannot call that success.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#106909: Dec 16th 2015 at 1:43:35 PM

[up][up]True but unfortunately civil war isn't really an option anymore. Much as my neighbors wish it was.

Also for future reference. [[quoteblock]]Whatever you're quoting[[/quoteblock]] will put it in cute a cute little box.

Like so

edited 16th Dec '15 1:45:23 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#106910: Dec 16th 2015 at 1:44:58 PM

My stance on Clinton is that she may not be the best person, but she will be able to keep the country from crashing and burning in a way that the Trumps and Carsons of the world would not.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#106912: Dec 16th 2015 at 1:51:21 PM

I would argue that most politicians consider themselves something along the lines of "The Extremist Was Right".

Specifically, I think they're opportunists who want to gain the most money and power possible, in order to achieve some ideal they consider to justify lying and cheating.

Also, politicians have a massive incentive to pander to a particular crowd.

Leviticus 19:34
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#106913: Dec 16th 2015 at 1:55:50 PM

Only if you overestimate the human brain's capacity for auto analysis. The human brain is actually wired to make excuses rather than to update itself. Confrontation with contradictions of our own does not tend, outside of certain enviroments, to be welcome, received, or even thought about. The brain was not made to take other points of view, mostly its own experiences and ideas.

Again, they are not the villains of their own stories, they are the unsung heroes that are doing what they know works, because something in the past told them so.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#106914: Dec 16th 2015 at 1:56:47 PM

Bense, you've taken your own dogmatic view in assuming the absolute worst about Clinton, and I have no idea where you're getting any of that. She's a hell of a lot less questionable than just about anyone on the Republican side right now. (The open admission that the Benghazi thing was about her has not done them favors.) And I've seen nothing that suggest she thinks she's 'justified in doing anything'.

And quite frankly, I am not looking forward to another four years, potentially eight, of the kind of Congressional gridlock and opposition we've had during Obama's presidency. I don't even know what Republicans are getting out of doing that at this point. Seriously, I don't. Are they going to keep trying to repeal the APA when it's proving to be well liked? Are they going to keep crying about presidential tyranny when they refuse to consider all the bills going to them? We've got a significant chunk of our government refusing to do their jobs and then saying that government doesn't work.

Generally, while assuming altruism of politicians is probably not wise, neither is assuming the absolute worst of them. Unless, you know, they say shit like they want to bomb a place until the sand glows, and few, if any, actually address that. At which point it's not assuming anymore; they've revealed their character.

edited 16th Dec '15 1:58:48 PM by AceofSpades

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#106915: Dec 16th 2015 at 2:03:13 PM

Don't paint all Republicans in the same brush. The governors, at least, aren't really responsible for the Benghazi thing and are a different breed from the legislators.

Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#106916: Dec 16th 2015 at 2:05:50 PM

Oh, that's no where near the absolute worst I could assume of Clinton. However I try to be realistic in my assessment of politicians.

For what it's worth, I think we would probably survive another Clinton presidency, and she might even do a better job than Obama has. Still I would prefer to avoid it.

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#106917: Dec 16th 2015 at 2:07:11 PM

[up]Precisely who among the republicans will do better than Clinton?

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#106918: Dec 16th 2015 at 2:09:39 PM

[up] Julius Caesar!

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#106920: Dec 16th 2015 at 2:13:19 PM

[up][up] No, Krampus.

edited 16th Dec '15 2:15:00 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#106921: Dec 16th 2015 at 2:13:41 PM

He is the last of the republicans. But a republican nonetheless.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#106922: Dec 16th 2015 at 2:14:15 PM

Yes, your pick for POTUS would be enlightening.

"You can reply to this Message!"
Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#106923: Dec 16th 2015 at 2:14:31 PM

Precisely who among the republicans will do better than Clinton?
That is the question, isn't it? My only answer so far is "not Trump."

edited 16th Dec '15 2:15:18 PM by Bense

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#106924: Dec 16th 2015 at 2:17:29 PM

Both sides canidates suck in my opinion. I don't want a Clinton, and sure as hell not Genralisamo Trump.

Might sit this one election out. Not like votes matter anyway with the electoral college and all that.

edited 16th Dec '15 2:18:50 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#106925: Dec 16th 2015 at 2:18:36 PM

For what it's worth my feeling about Clinton is that she's somewhat shady, especially in terms of ties to Wall Street and having a sort of "inner circle" (although I guess probably all major politicians do). But she's definitely someone who entered public service for that reason and I think would make an effective President.

I do wish there were more/different Democrats running but I can't see Clinton being a bad President. I was never really a Sanders supporter although he somewhat grew on me after the first debate. But I ultimately think he has too much of a Single-Issue Wonk in how he sees everything through economic determinism. And I'm wary of his presentation of himself as someone who can win (racist) white voters.

Edit- I'd also say that I think Clinton is maybe a bit too hawkish. Like despite what Republicans say, Obama is fairly hawkish and I'm in line with that. I don't think Sanders would be effective in executing a foreign policy.

edited 16th Dec '15 2:23:42 PM by Hodor2


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