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Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#106726: Dec 14th 2015 at 4:24:33 PM

Trump actually being the nominee. He won't be though.

edited 14th Dec '15 4:27:27 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#106727: Dec 14th 2015 at 5:02:32 PM

I don't think you can destroy the Republican party as a political Party, there are to many legal benefits tied with being the Republican Party or the Democratic party for either party to go away competently no matter how far off the deep end they go.

Now destroy the party as we know it today? Time more then anything else I suspect, as the old racist white vote continues to die off the party will be forced to modernise, the big business interests of today will be replaced with new big business interests, from the mills of old to the factories, to the banks of today, big business has changed, eventually we may see the Republican Party move to more modern big Business, the Google's and Amazon's of the day.

People realising how insane the current Republicans are and moving away in droves wouldn't be enough to destroy them as a political party, it would make them not relevant for a time and force them to adapt and change, but it wouldn't destroy them.

edited 14th Dec '15 5:04:07 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#106728: Dec 14th 2015 at 5:10:37 PM

[up][up]I wouldn't put it past him running for president anyways.

I don't know if Trump truly believes he can win as an independent, but I 100% guarantee that he knows that the other Republicans can't. All he has to do is maneuver into position to be the best shot they've got, otherwise it's utter suicide.

However, he himself pointed out there's no point in considering running independent because he's consistently had large support. And being deliberately excluded would only justify everything he's ever said about the Republican establishment and support him even further.

The Republican party has put themselves between one hell of a rock and a hard place, and they know it.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#106729: Dec 14th 2015 at 5:16:57 PM

Trump may not want to win, it's about ego and prestige, he wants to be the nominee, he wants to be the headline news, I seriously doubt the man has any interest in actually running anything. Hell I wouldn't be that surprised if if he did somehow win he then resigned on day one just to make big headlines and so that he wouldn't have to actually do anything.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#106730: Dec 14th 2015 at 5:18:11 PM

In that case, I'd be very VERY interested in who he chose as his veep.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#106731: Dec 14th 2015 at 5:25:09 PM

People realising how insane the current Republicans are and moving away in droves wouldn't be enough to destroy them as a political party, it would make them not relevant for a time and force them to adapt and change, but it wouldn't destroy them.
The thing is, due to the way the American election system works, becoming irrelevant for a time would destroy them. Because we use first-past-the-post voting, the system supports exactly two political parties. So-called "third parties" end up being self-defeating because they steal votes from their nearest allies, which virtually guarantees that their enemies will win the election, and if there ever ended up being a single major party, it would quickly fracture in two as candidates sought to distinguish themselves from other candidates within their party.

This has actually happened before in American politics. In the early 1800s, the two major parties were the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans (aka Anti-Federalists). The Federalists collapsed after the War of 1812, and the Democratic-Republicans split into the Democrats and the Whigs. During the run up to the Civil War, the Whigs collapsed and were replaced by the Republicans (who were largely Whigs but explicitly anti-slavery).

If the modern Republican party collapses, then the most likely result is the Democratic party splitting into a moderate party (which would attract centrist Democrats and former moderate Republicans) and a liberal party (which would attract left-leaning Democrats) and right-leaning Republicans (like the Tea Party crowd) would be left out in the cold.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#106732: Dec 14th 2015 at 5:32:29 PM

[up] Did the US system have as entrenched legal advantages for the two parties back then? Keep in mind that the Republican and Democrat parties have legal advantages over other political parties. Moderate Republicans aren't going to give up those legal advantages by founding a new party, they're going to fight tooth and nail to be the last ones standing of the Republican Party.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#106733: Dec 14th 2015 at 5:37:13 PM

i feel like the republican party will mostly have to adapt its social rethoric down the line, at least. economy is something most people aren't educated enough to discuss intelligently, but you don't need a degree to know racist, mysogynistic, and homophobic discourse when you see it.

edited 14th Dec '15 5:55:09 PM by wehrmacht

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#106734: Dec 14th 2015 at 5:45:32 PM

Which would honestly be a great thing for everyone involved. Especially if we could get approval or Ranked voting out of the deal, somehow. I feel a major shake-up in the parties could allow for that.

I'm baaaaaaack
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#106735: Dec 14th 2015 at 6:20:23 PM

Moderate Republicans aren't going to give up those legal advantages by founding a new party, they're going to fight tooth and nail to be the last ones standing of the Republican Party.
Moderate Republicans are already defecting to the Democratic party as they're being primary'd out by Tea Party candidates. See Charlie Crist for a good example. If the Republican party collapses, then it's likely that the Democrats will shift rightward to pick up those refugees, and more liberal candidates will split off to form a left-wing party in opposition to the centrist Democrats.

That said, the two party system doesn't exist because of any specific legal benefits given to the two major parties that currently rule the political roost. It exists because of the first-past-the-post election system, meaning that whoever gets 50% + 1 vote wins the election, which has the effect of incentivizing large big-tent parties so as to avoid splitting the vote between candidates that are largely similar (and allowing someone with wildly opposing stances who didn't split the vote to win instead).

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#106736: Dec 14th 2015 at 6:30:02 PM

Any real movement to change that in any of the states?

Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#106737: Dec 14th 2015 at 6:30:47 PM

I'm not convinced the legal benefits of being a Republican or a Democrat are enough to prevent the destruction of a party if it looks like a loser to its base. Can you elaborate on those, Silasw?

edited 14th Dec '15 6:31:25 PM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#106738: Dec 14th 2015 at 6:37:36 PM

They don't exist purely because of those legal benefits, but the legal benefits make it much harder for new parties to be established.

My understanding is that when you register to vote you register as a Republican, A Democrat or an Independent, that right there is the goverment putting two political parties at a massive advantage over all other parties, why would anyone want to give that up? Any splinter group from the Democrats would have to contend with the fact that people are registering as Dems or Republicans, not "new left Dems" or Dems. They'd be better off just fighting the Democratic right-wing from within the Democratic Party. The Dems would always win, but which branch of the Dems would be the important thing.

First Past The Post is rigged for big parties, but the US system is especially rigged for the Democrats and Republicans.

edited 14th Dec '15 6:39:24 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#106739: Dec 14th 2015 at 6:40:34 PM

There's nothing actually stopping people from registering as a Green Party member or whatever. It's just that not a lot do, because first past the post.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#106740: Dec 14th 2015 at 6:42:53 PM

Also, in some states, if you're not registered with a party, you can't vote in the primary.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#106741: Dec 14th 2015 at 6:45:16 PM

I remember having many parties to choose from (plus Independent) when I got registered to vote.

But yes, the Republicans aren't going stop being a party, they're just going to lose a shit ton of elections due to demographic changes until they change their policies to be more palatable.

edited 14th Dec '15 6:47:38 PM by Ekuran

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#106742: Dec 14th 2015 at 6:52:39 PM

[up]These days, registering as "Independent" puts you in with the American Independent Party. If you want to be lower-case "i" independent, you should register as "Non-Partisan/No Affiliation."

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#106743: Dec 14th 2015 at 7:06:53 PM

My understanding is that when you register to vote you register as a Republican, A Democrat or an Independent, that right there is the goverment putting two political parties at a massive advantage over all other parties, why would anyone want to give that up? Any splinter group from the Democrats would have to contend with the fact that people are registering as Dems or Republicans, not "new left Dems" or Dems. They'd be better off just fighting the Democratic right-wing from within the Democratic Party. The Dems would always win, but which branch of the Dems would be the important thing.
When you register to vote, you can register as a member of any political party or none of them. There's no real benefit to doing this (or to not doing it) for the average voter — the only legal benefit to being officially registered as a member of a party is that some states ("closed primary" states) restrict voting in party primaries to members of that party. "Open primary" states that don't have that requirement also exist, however.

Obviously, if you're a politician rather than an average voter then there are more consequences to party affiliation. But generally speaking, it doesn't matter if you register for a party or what party you register for. Political parties don't collect "member's dues" or any other financial contribution as a requirement for membership, and (other than primary voting in closed primary states) being a registered party member doesn't offer any privileges or advantages.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#106744: Dec 14th 2015 at 7:12:41 PM

This is why G.W. warned his successors against creating political parties.

edited 14th Dec '15 7:13:18 PM by Xopher001

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#106746: Dec 14th 2015 at 9:49:57 PM

Hardened voting registration preferences and closed primaries probably do give the present two parties some resilience, but they're still vulnerable if their base becomes too quickly disquieted or pressurized. The few folks I know who are GOP are only so because the apparent alternative is being a Democrat. Some of those folks at large in the conservative voting bloc are probably creative and capable of spontaneously generating a meme that will have the effect on the GOP of a shipboard eductor: watery enough at first, but it'll have sucked enough of the greasy, oily crap from the previous space to still catch fire on the other side, since oil, grease, and crap all naturally concentrate and float to the top. Happened to our version of the Whigs.

edited 14th Dec '15 9:56:29 PM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#106747: Dec 15th 2015 at 1:55:00 AM

Trump will run as an independent, but that won't destroy the Republican party. It'll cost them the 2016 election though.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Know-age Since: May, 2010
#106748: Dec 15th 2015 at 2:40:23 AM

Trump was literally born the year after Mussolini died, lmao.

edited 15th Dec '15 2:40:46 AM by Know-age

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#106750: Dec 15th 2015 at 3:12:46 AM

Hillary will be the next US president. There may be a slight chance that Bernie will be her second in command.

Honestly, I'm really not sure about Bernie, but I want him so badly to be at least US's economic advisor cause he is perfect for that job.

Fuck Trump and the stupid (segment) of the Republic party. I don't want to think about them anymore. I CANNOT cause I'll BLOW up again. And you do not want me to blow up.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

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