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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#106676: Dec 13th 2015 at 3:23:21 PM

In the sidebar on Field Marshal Fry's link last two pages ago, I found this gem. Posting here just in case you want any more fodder for revenge fantasies or reasons to hate Karl Rove. http://tinyurl.com/h6clnmx

Freakin' page toppers.

edited 13th Dec '15 3:27:36 PM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#106677: Dec 13th 2015 at 4:49:27 PM

@ Pwiegle: I'll call it like I see it. When the cops get away with murder and other crimes regularly, I'll call them "The fucking Nazi SS". The only reason they haven't clamped down on dissent against them is because they haven't got the right president for that.

As for the "if they drew their weapon on you, you are at fault" that is bullshit and you know it. You're smarter than that.

As for the "race card" thing, sorry, I'm laughing - that argument sounds like something a Fox News Alleged Journalist would use.

The fact is, more and more, the police do respond to situations with guns blazing, and they always it seems get away with it.

They've also taken to threatening Quentin Tarantino, saying there would be a surprise waiting for him on the release of his movie The Hateful Eight. Which, coming from these Third Reich-ish fuckers, is terrifying.

edited 13th Dec '15 4:52:50 PM by NickTheSwing

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#106678: Dec 13th 2015 at 5:15:07 PM

The fact is, more and more, the police do respond to situations with guns blazing, and they always it seems get away with it.

Bold, categoric statement of fact. Citation Needed.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#106679: Dec 13th 2015 at 5:43:45 PM

what about a threat that is not currently actively threatening you with a weapon but simply making illegal demands of you?
Then tell them no, I guess? I'm not sure what that has to do with the original comment, which was about people acting aggressively toward the police and the police response to that.

I'd point you to the stats on how many unarmed people the police have shot when the only threat has been their own paranoia that "them darkies are coming"
You realize that you're begging the question, here? I'm arguing that police response is more reasonable than most people give them credit for, and your reply is "no it's not, they're just trigger-happy racists". My point is that in basically every police shooting case you hear about, there was something going on that made the situation more ambiguous than just "cop murders random unarmed suspect for no reason". Either the suspect was behaving in a manner that made them seem armed and dangerous (in which case the cop is obligated to treat them as such, for their own safety as well as the safety of others), even if they weren't actually. This is what the original quote that started this line of discussion was about. If you don't want the cops to use force against you, then don't act belligerently toward the cops.

Incidentally, the reason why there are no statistics on gun violence is because Republicans in Congress passed legislation making it illegal for the government to spend money on researching gun violence as a public health issue, which I agree with you is bullshit. But blame the NRA culture for that one.

Also in part it's the principle, I shouldn't have to be afraid of the police, I am, but I shouldn't be, they're meant to be protecting us, not making us run in fear and give up our rights and freedoms.
The police are people who carry lethal weapons and are authorized to use them. You should absolutely be aware of that and act accordingly. This doesn't mean being afraid of them, but it does mean respecting that fact. When I'm crossing the street, I'm certainly aware of the fact that I need to pay attention or I could be hit by a car and killed. That doesn't mean I'm afraid of cars.

Also, the law is stacked against you - resisting arrest statutes are usually not written to say "resisting a lawful arrest." Even resisting an unlawful arrest will get you slammed with charges. In some cases, the arrest being unlawful is a legal defense, but even still, it's a dumb idea to assert your rights - even if you "win" that confrontation, you've given the rest of the police force probable cause to arrest you, and do you think you're going to win in court? While we're at it, do you think you can defeat the officer on the scene or force him to back down without breaking more laws or giving him an excuse to use deadly force? While we're at it, do you think you can defeat the officer on the scene or force him to back down without breaking more laws or giving him an excuse to use deadly force?

Also, if you're in the group where, for you, American society really is a police state (for example, a young African-American male), as a practical matter, do you think that fighting back against a cop will make them realize what they did wrong the next time you have to deal with them? No, it means you're in their files as the guy who resists arrest, and you're that much more likely to be taken down violently next time you meet them, whether or not that's legal.

Exactly. tldr, resisting arrest is almost always a very bad idea.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#106680: Dec 13th 2015 at 6:01:08 PM

Even though he was - due credit suspended, it is really telling this is the kind of guy who makes it on to police forces.

Seen here; some plucky members of our own Schutzstaffel joking about how funny it is to make a head explode.

Tell me again how these people somehow aren't the Nazi SS when they chat about their kill-streaks?

Because seriously, this is getting very familiar very fast. Lots of cops have inherited Reinhard Heydrich's "sense of humor".

edited 13th Dec '15 6:03:22 PM by NickTheSwing

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#106681: Dec 13th 2015 at 6:03:37 PM

Frankly, if I was a black man, I would be pretty afraid of the police. I suspect that deep down a lot of police officers understand that not every black man is liable to be a threat to public safety or some kind of criminal, but hold a "better safe than sorry" mentality, even if it's based on racism.

edited 13th Dec '15 6:04:12 PM by wehrmacht

NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#106682: Dec 13th 2015 at 6:09:27 PM

I'm a white guy, but I know history enough to be afraid when so much of the police is basically militarized and able to stifle any action against their own.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#106683: Dec 13th 2015 at 6:10:56 PM

I'm not sure what that has to do with the original comment, which was about people acting aggressively toward the police and the police response to that.

No it was about an attitude that if people don't want to get hurt they should "do what I (the cop) tell them". If what they tell you is illegal/something they have no legal right to ask, then you shouldn't be doing it out of fear of being hurt, I mean I'd understand if you did, but a cop shouldn't belive they can hurt you if you don't do what they tell you because you aren't allowed to tell them to do that.

This isn't about people resisting arrest, it's about people being able to say "you don't have the right to make me do that" and not be hurt for it.

the suspect was behaving in a manner that made them seem armed and dangerous

And what I am arguing is that the standard for what constitutes "armed and dangerous" is a racist bullshtis double standard. Look I don't like your gun laws but they are what they are, that means that people have a legal right to carry weapons, gun, knives and more, yet totally non belligerent black youths are getting killed a frightening amount for looking like they have a weapon. I don't care if they're armed, they're allowed to be armed, God knows why, but they are, so the police realy need to stop treating an armed black person like an instant threat, because they're sure as hell not doing it to white people, as seen by the example that started this all, a masked heavily armed white man being threatening as fuck outside a Mosque.

No not all police are trigger happy racists, but the number of bodies pilling up indicates that a scary number are.

And it's not the lack of federal stats on gun violence genrally that I was talking about, many areas don't keep records on the number of police shootings, they simply choose not to, it's nothing to do with the NRA.

When I'm crossing the street, I'm certainly aware of the fact that I need to pay attention or I could be hit by a car and killed.

Sure but you don't live in constant fear that even when crossing the street a legal street crossing when the lights are red for the cars, that a car will randomly decide to run you down despite you doing everything right. At least I hope not.

edited 13th Dec '15 6:17:03 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#106684: Dec 13th 2015 at 6:25:10 PM

Physically resisting arrest is a bad idea, but being verbally combative could definitely be a part of it if, in fact, the officer is doing something untoward.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#106685: Dec 13th 2015 at 6:29:17 PM

I'd advise against being combative, one can be non-compliment without be combative or violent.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#106686: Dec 13th 2015 at 9:10:20 PM

No it was about an attitude that if people don't want to get hurt they should "do what I (the cop) tell them". If what they tell you is illegal/something they have no legal right to ask, then you shouldn't be doing it out of fear of being hurt, I mean I'd understand if you did, but a cop shouldn't belive they can hurt you if you don't do what they tell you because you aren't allowed to tell them to do that. This isn't about people resisting arrest, it's about people being able to say "you don't have the right to make me do that" and not be hurt for it.

No one's saying they should hurt you. But 99% of the time an issue of resisting arrest/ arguing with a cop comes up, that's exactly what they're not doing. It's people refusing to respond to questions, closing windows, and not complying with legal orders.

And what I am arguing is that the standard for what constitutes "armed and dangerous" is a racist bullshtis double standard. Look I don't like your gun laws but they are what they are, that means that people have a legal right to carry weapons, gun, knives and more, yet totally non belligerent black youths are getting killed a frightening amount for looking like they have a weapon.

It deeply depends on the situation. Non black people get shot for having weapons too, and many situations are ones where they were, again, not complying with what they were told. When the police are convinced someone has a weapon, sudden movements or reaching for pockets will look like the person is trying to draw a firearm. They do not have the time to wait and see if they're going to get shot to death.

What usually happens is the person does not do as they're told, which loops back into the whole "unless it's actively harmful, do what they tell you to do". If it's illegal, sue their asses afterwards, that's why courts exist.

edited 13th Dec '15 9:15:50 PM by Joesolo

I'm baaaaaaack
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#106689: Dec 13th 2015 at 10:35:21 PM

Trump: Hmmm, my fascist cred isn't strong enough yet...I know! Let's shut down parts of the Internet! Free speech is stupid anyway!

Who wants to bet the majority of Trump supporters don't actually go online very often?

(Not that the article's writer is much brighter than Trump, given that the article assumes that the Internet only works geographically...)

edited 13th Dec '15 10:37:35 PM by TotemicHero

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#106690: Dec 13th 2015 at 10:44:36 PM

To be fair, Clinton has also proposed restrictions on the internet for the purposes of security, though without sounding even remotely as moronic.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#106691: Dec 13th 2015 at 10:52:57 PM

Speaking of Internet restrictions, what happened to the SOPA/CISPA/whatever-they're-calling-it-now proposals? I heard they were trying something again a few months ago, but never heard anything since then.

Who wants to bet the majority of Trump supporters don't actually go online very often?
... I really cannot fathom the minds of people who isolate themselves so much from the online world. I was about 10 years old when the Internet hit the world in the '90s, and now I cannot imagine myself going more than a couple of days completely offline.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#106692: Dec 14th 2015 at 1:15:38 AM

They talked about Trump on the British Have I Got News For You show this week, strait up calling him a deluded facist (well his policies, Trump's "wake up" bit was joked to be "wake up to Fascism, a simple hate filled solution") who's friends with Piers Morgan, though the last bit was called false, as we all know that Piers Morgan has no friends.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#106693: Dec 14th 2015 at 1:43:06 AM

I've heard rumours that in Neo-Nazi / Fascist circles, they're taking to calling Trump "Der Fuhrer".

Make of that what you will.

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#106694: Dec 14th 2015 at 1:45:56 AM

[up]There's got to be at least a little bit irony in there, right? I mean, they don't actually believe him to be the next Hitler, do they?

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#106695: Dec 14th 2015 at 2:03:07 AM

Probably. Mind you, the actual "Hitler did nothing wrong" types are an extreme minority. But Trump is their guy.

This is part of why what I want to see most out of this election is a definitive splintering of the Republican party. The differences between the people who believe in Trump's genuineness, versus the people who are okay with the establishment's fakeness, would be absolutely fascinating to examine.note 

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#106696: Dec 14th 2015 at 2:30:08 AM

At least one neo-Nazi site over here is a fan of Trump, saying "Heil Donald Trump, THE ULTIMATE SAVIOUR".

edited 14th Dec '15 2:30:17 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#106697: Dec 14th 2015 at 2:31:35 AM

@Nick you are trying a bit too hard to Put On The Reich on Trump, could you tone it down maybe? As bad as he is, there is a still a lot of space between just talking about it and actually doing it. And as bad as the situation of the police in the US is, still not as bad as the actual SS or Gestapo.

Using the terms as if interchangeable comes across as needlessly hyperbolic and flanderizing. Furthermore it robs the comparison of impact if its actually warranted. As you do it, its just polemics.

"You can reply to this Message!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#106698: Dec 14th 2015 at 2:33:45 AM

[up] I don't think anyone is arguing that the situation is current as bad, but as Trump wants to put people in internment camps Trump certainly seems like he wants to make it that level of bad.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#106699: Dec 14th 2015 at 2:37:35 AM

Alright, I'll tone down what I'm saying. I suppose that not all the police are over-militarized State Sec wannabes.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#106700: Dec 14th 2015 at 2:43:54 AM

[up][up]I'm not disputing that, but Nick has called the police the Waffen-SS and the like in earlier posts, which is what I was primarily referring too. Hyperbole-by-term is not helping political discussions no matter the context.

"You can reply to this Message!"

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