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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#106201: Dec 8th 2015 at 9:30:24 AM

I'm still not on board with Obama's position on the no-fly list, but that's more a generic problem with the list being illegal than a gun-control problem in specific.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#106202: Dec 8th 2015 at 9:30:54 AM

I don't think Trump is a very good representative of the Republican party. At all. I mean, seriously, Fox News, Glenn Beck, and Dick Cheney have all denounced him. At least one GOP candidate called him a "narcissistic lunatic".

I'd argue that he's a RINO.

Leviticus 19:34
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#106203: Dec 8th 2015 at 9:32:07 AM

The top three Republican candidates are all people that the RNC has denounced and thinks would be horrible for the party. The RNC is rapidly becoming irrelevant.

[up] The term "RINO" means someone who holds Democratic views but claims to be a Republican. That doesn't describe Trump in any way.

Regarding guns, sure, we can't stop everything by banning them, but we definitely can stop a lot more than we are now.

edited 8th Dec '15 9:32:54 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#106204: Dec 8th 2015 at 9:33:42 AM

Winning polls is not the same as winning primaries or an actual election.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#106205: Dec 8th 2015 at 9:38:10 AM

Well, let's look at the others...

  • Marco Rubio, the "up-and-comer" establishment darling, who abandoned his own immigration plan and seems to be riding the policy coattails of the Tea Party, including a tax plan so regressive that even Fox couldn't "unskew" it.
  • Jeb Bush, the heir-apparent to the Bush dynasty, who can't get popular even after outspending the entire primary field in advertising. He is a wooden plank, no personality, no motivation, nothing.
  • Rand Paul, the Libertarian-Objectivist misanthrope who visibly hates campaigning, and government, and people, really.
  • Lindsey Graham, the war hawk who thinks that nothing short of nuking the Middle-East is too much to Protect American Freedom.
  • Chris Christie, the corrupt bully who was nevertheless seen shaking hands with Obama and is thus toxic to the GOP.
  • Carly Fiorina, who got fired from HP for incompetence, has staked her campaign on false claims about Planned Parenthood, and mainlines conspiracy theories from Alex Jones.

And some other guys.

edited 8th Dec '15 11:36:43 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#106206: Dec 8th 2015 at 9:40:31 AM

The bipartisanship is funny. People cling to a name so desperately, they would forsake the meaning behind that name.

That goes for both republicans and democrats, by the way.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#106207: Dec 8th 2015 at 9:46:22 AM

Polls don't always tell the whole story, but I think saying Trump, Carson and Cruz don't represent the Republican Party reeks of No True Scotsman fallacy. When those three, amongst themselves, have roughly the support of half the party voters. Sure, maybe the primary results will be different, but when that many people in the party express support for their kinds of policies, how can you state with confidence that they are not "really" representative of what the GOP has come to stand for?

Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#106208: Dec 8th 2015 at 9:46:25 AM

Well, at least the Republicans have a lively primary process going on (you know, an actual debate on who will be the candidate), with a wide field. The Democrat side has been just dull and unenthusiastic acceptance of the heir-apparent.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#106209: Dec 8th 2015 at 9:47:16 AM

[up][up]I was just saying Trump wasn't a republican. I wasn't saying anything about Cruz or Carson.

Leviticus 19:34
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#106210: Dec 8th 2015 at 9:49:43 AM

[up][up] I know it is on TV and TV is supposed to be entertaining, but, you know. Political discourses aren't meant to be entertaining or un-dull tongue

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#106211: Dec 8th 2015 at 9:50:40 AM

By the way, "RINO" doesn't mean "secretly a Democrat", it means "insufficiently orthodox."

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#106212: Dec 8th 2015 at 9:51:45 AM

@Bense: It's been plenty lively over on the Democrats' side — we got the policy debate that we wanted, a debate that forced Hillary Clinton to clarify her positions on a number of very important issues. Sanders had his shot at an insurgent campaign, but has fallen short due to being something of a one-trick pony. However, there is no real schism on the Democrats' side; rather, there are matters of degree: how much you feel a given issue is important tends to determine which candidate you support.

You aren't exactly doing yourself any favors by using the current Republican primaries as a model for good campaigning. All of the Democratic debates and forums so far have been policy-focused and contained real, substantive discussion. The Republican debates have been a circus.

If your goal in the primaries is to Pass the Popcorn, then sure, the GOP has offered tons of fodder for the late night comedy circuit. But that's not how a country should be governed.

edited 8th Dec '15 9:54:42 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#106213: Dec 8th 2015 at 9:58:09 AM

It's not a way to govern the country, but it might be a good way to spot some flaws in the people who want to govern the country.

When the Democrats hold a debate on Fox and it DOESN'T turn into a circus, then we can start blaming the Republican candidates for what happened during the CNBC debate.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#106214: Dec 8th 2015 at 10:02:53 AM

Fox is not a news network; it's a propaganda machine. There's no way the DNC would allow them to host a debate. And there isn't one on the schedule.

Anyway, from what I saw of the various GOP debates so far, the "circus" has been them attacking each other on various trivial matters and delivering scathing attacks at Obama and liberalism in general. Whenever a moderator brings up a legitimate policy issue, even simply asking them how they plan to pay for their tax plans, it becomes, "Why is the media being mean to us?"

Just as one example, not a single candidate has proposed a tangible replacement for Obamacare, which they all plan to repeal.

edited 8th Dec '15 10:09:10 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#106215: Dec 8th 2015 at 10:10:14 AM

It's not a way to govern the country, but it might be a good way to spot some flaws in the people who want to govern the country.

If you look for flaws in people, you will find them.

No one is perfect.

Except me. I am the perfect bad example to not follow.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#106216: Dec 8th 2015 at 10:13:42 AM

@Protagonist: Pray tell, then, what is it that makes Trump not a Republican, but does qualify Cruz and Carson as such? Because it seems to me that most of the attitudes that Trump uses to appeal to voters are broadly shared by Carson and Cruz, just not with as much bombast.

Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#106217: Dec 8th 2015 at 10:15:17 AM

Even if I accepted your judgement of Fox it would only strengthen my point. Of course some of the Republican debates have not been policy focused - the moderators of most of their debates had no interest in anything but providing a circus. The CNBC moderation amounted to "come look at the freaks!" The Democrats would face the same problem if they held their debates on networks with moderators as unfavorable to their political views, or candidates willing to mix it up a little. Instead we get a "debate" where the opposing candidate says right at the outset "I'm perfectly willing to ignore your most obvious flaw." Dull.

Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#106218: Dec 8th 2015 at 10:20:30 AM

"If you look for flaws in people, you will find them. No one is perfect."

Which is why we prefer a representative democracy to an absolute dictatorship. If we could find a perfect person we could trust them perfectly, and get rid of all this silly "checks and balance" nonsense that gets in the way of doing stuff that needs to be done. But as you point out, the perfect leader doesn't exist.

Elections are for letting us pick "good enough for now," and a process of finding the faults that make a candidate not good enough is therefore valuable.

edited 8th Dec '15 10:21:22 AM by Bense

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#106219: Dec 8th 2015 at 10:25:17 AM

I am just saying: If any of the republican candidates are currently deemed "good enough", collectively, the Republican Party seems to have the same standards as someone who would date me.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#106220: Dec 8th 2015 at 10:29:29 AM

Tubman most popular replacement for Jackson on 10$Bill.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#106221: Dec 8th 2015 at 10:30:57 AM

"Wilma Mankiller."

[lol] With a name like that...

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#106222: Dec 8th 2015 at 10:34:20 AM

I don't see why we're trying to replace Alexander Hamilton.

Oh, here's an idea! Replace Jackson with Hamilton! There we go!

Leviticus 19:34
Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#106223: Dec 8th 2015 at 10:38:03 AM

"I am just saying: If any of the republican candidates are currently deemed "good enough", collectively, the Republican Party seems to have the same standards as someone who would date me."

Thank you, I needed a laugh. If it's any one's business, my "good enough" pick in the last election was Romney, but he appears to be too smart to run again.

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#106224: Dec 8th 2015 at 11:09:37 AM

Even if I accepted your judgement of Fox it would only strengthen my point.

Would you accept it if Rupert Murdoch himself said so? Because he's on record as having said that spreading his ideology is what is most important to him. There's a reason why every single one of the (at the time) 170+ newspapers and media outlets that he owned around the world all supported the Iraq war, even ones in countries where 80% of the national population opposed it.

My ventures in media are not as important to me as spreading my personal political beliefs. - Rupert Murdoch

Facing that, why would any sane Democrat ever agree to do a debate on Faux News? Most news outlets are incredibly craptacular, but at least they're just companies chasing the dollar and giving their audience the crap they believe their audience wants. Faux News is aggressively out to shape the news and their audience to their desire. Might as well ask for a US Presidential debate hosted in Stalinist Russia or by Iranian Mullahs.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#106225: Dec 8th 2015 at 11:11:40 AM

Don't forget that Fox is a company that went to court over their ability to lie about the news.

Oh really when?

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