TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#106026: Dec 7th 2015 at 2:52:05 AM

[up] I'm genuinely disappointed that the kids in that picture don't have guns too. The babies should have teeny pistols, it would be adorable! It just doesn't feel complete when they're left out.

rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#106027: Dec 7th 2015 at 3:02:39 AM

One thing that really bothers me is celebrating Christmas in places like Phoenix and Las Vegas. It's too far from the pole, it completely dilutes the meaning of Yule. You know, A New Hope, and so on.
So watch Star Wars Episode IV and call it good?

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#106028: Dec 7th 2015 at 6:05:11 AM

In fairness, naming a school on foreign policy after Woodrow Wilson, whose foreign policy aims can be generously characterized as a comprehensive failure, does seem a mite odd for a university playing up their role as the training ground of American diplomats.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#106029: Dec 7th 2015 at 6:13:53 AM

They failed due to his poor handling of things domestically (he did not get on with the Senate of his day), his actual aims were rather laudable. If anything it's a nice idea, naming a place training diplomats after a man who tried to make the word a better and kinder place despite great opposition.

The big thing with the naming thing is how the US venerates people, we will have all sorts of things named after dodgy people (not many statues though, we don't tend to go for them in general) over here, but we acknowledge that such people had faults and often did bad things (well some of them, dissing Churchill won't get you far even though the man id push for some horrible things to be done), we don't expect them to have been perfect saints.

edited 7th Dec '15 6:15:59 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#106030: Dec 7th 2015 at 7:02:22 AM

Wilson basically built the forerunner to the modern international order.

At the same time, he went out of his way to re-segregate the civil service, so people going to a public and international affairs school have right to take umbrage with the man himself, since he also did great damage to the American civil service in that manner.

The key, as in other things, is balance. Fair for Its Day has to be acknowledged (though again, on the civil service, Wilson was unfair for his time, but i'm talking about other people, like Lincoln), but we also have to acknowledge that so much of our great moments in history had components of erasing or minimizing the presence or contributions of women and people of color.

As that article in the Atlantic noted, the solution is also more than just doing something like putting Sacagewea on the $20

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#106031: Dec 7th 2015 at 7:45:01 AM

I say we put Harriet Tubman or Eleanor Roosevelt on the 20. And Alexander Hamilton will stay on the goddam ten until hell freezes overtongue

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#106032: Dec 7th 2015 at 7:46:27 AM

You know, we keep talking about how the Republicans' path to the White House might be found in a significant economic downturn. If the Federal Reserve raises rates in its next meeting, they could inflict a great deal of harm in the slow, but marked progress of the recovery. Conspiracy? Or stupidity?

edited 7th Dec '15 7:46:35 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#106033: Dec 7th 2015 at 8:31:42 AM

people who should have never got nice statues and holidays in the first place *coughcough*Colombus*coughcough*
Columbus was the friggen Neil Armstrong of his day. Dude deserves some recognition for basically enabling American history as we know it. No, he wasn't the first person on the continent, nor even the first European, but he was the person who opened it up to European commerce. We shouldn't whitewash him and act like he was this super great amazing wonderful guy, but he doesn't deserve to be treated as cackling villain who "discovered" the "New World" just so he had a bunch of people to genocide for the fun of it either.

We as a society are fully capable of saying "hooray for Columbus, without whom we wouldn't be here today — pity he was such a jerk about the people who were already living here at the time".

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#106034: Dec 7th 2015 at 8:41:02 AM

He didn't quite discover it on purpose. I mean, the first reasons of why he wanted to do the travel were quite noble: a new trade route. I mean. It took him quite a while to even realize he had discovered somewhere else.

Neil Armstrong at least had to study a ton of shit and was rare and unique in his time. Columbus was just a sailor.

As a governor, he was quite an asshole though. He and his brothers. It was just a matter of time before someone decided to explore though.

As for its impact on the modern world...well. Just tells us how little we know and how much we need to rework our education and what we teach children.

edited 7th Dec '15 8:42:15 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#106035: Dec 7th 2015 at 8:50:24 AM

[up] His initial reasons were noble but they were also based in scientific failure, the reason nobody had already made the journey was because we got the size of the planet right and realised that a journey west towards India/China/The East would take ages, Columbus disregarded thsi science and figured it would be super quick (and thus that the earth was smaller then it is), and by dumb luck ran into a new pair of continents along the way.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#106036: Dec 7th 2015 at 8:52:13 AM

[up][up][up]That's addressing the Columbus problem too lightly, in my opinion. Even during his time, there were loud voices in Spain calling for his dismissal and arrest for his actions that were, quite simply, monstrous. We're not just looking back and cherrypicking actions we dislike. The historical Columbus was an unsavory and genocidal robber whose sole raison d'etre was pillaging and enslaving as much of Hispanola as he could, and he's unworthy of the respect of decent human beings. We can learn about the importance of the joining of the Old and New Worlds and Columbus's essential role in it, without venerating him and having a federal holiday in his honor.

The historiography of the early Atlantic world, as taught by American schools, is a mess. We teach these neat, simply "Just So" Story tales that leave out everything unsavory about Columbus, or that the British in America were mustache-twirling tyrants, or teach us that the Founding Fathers were noble gods among men instead of the primarily self-interested, oligarchic elites that they actually were. The erasure of complexities and the lack of an honest look at what these men were actually like means we can use them as ersatz inspirations for every political ideology under the sun, and it's why we have a frankly infantile level of Patriotic Fervor in our political culture.

edited 7th Dec '15 8:58:05 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#106037: Dec 7th 2015 at 8:55:17 AM

I mean if one wants to celebrated the voyage and discovery why not just have a discovery day or something?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#106038: Dec 7th 2015 at 8:55:25 AM

[up][up][up] I never said he was particularly smart or unique, though. Being a sailor was not particularly a unique skill back then.

His biggest achievement was basically convincing Isabella, really.

World's most succesful door-to-door salesman

edited 7th Dec '15 8:55:58 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#106039: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:01:08 AM

[up] He wasn't the only one: John Cabot was also around at the time, and was the first to discover the North American mainland.

edited 7th Dec '15 9:01:18 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
optimusjamie Since: Jun, 2010
#106040: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:01:16 AM

Would Lief Eriksson be a better choice?

Direct all enquiries to Jamie B Good
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#106041: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:20:30 AM

@from a page ago: if this is about Dick Cheney getting a bust, I hardly see what's presentist about that

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#106042: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:21:41 AM

Cheney was well-known to be an evil schemer during his time in office. It hardly takes any revisionism to figure that out.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#106043: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:30:14 AM

[up] And that included the time before he became VP.

Keep Rolling On
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#106044: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:57:33 AM

Columbus was the friggen Neil Armstrong of his day.

Yeah, if Armstrong had landed on the Moon while trying to go to Mars. And then dug a crater big enough to be seen from Earth because he wanted gold.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#106045: Dec 7th 2015 at 10:01:13 AM

[up]That would actually still be quite an achievement.

Leviticus 19:34
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#106046: Dec 7th 2015 at 10:14:31 AM

Also I don't believe there's an Armstrong day.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#106047: Dec 7th 2015 at 10:33:18 AM

Well there should be.

Inter arma enim silent leges
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#106048: Dec 7th 2015 at 10:40:20 AM

You guys are missing my point entirely. We can argue all day over whether Columbus was a decent guy who did some unfortunate things or a Complete Monster who we should burn in effigy. My point is that whatever you think about him, he's undoubtedly an important historical figure, and saying that we should just ignore him because he was an asshole is stupid.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#106049: Dec 7th 2015 at 11:02:30 AM

Is anybody saying we should flat out ignore him? We can mention him sure but we should also talk about all the bad stuff he did.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#106050: Dec 7th 2015 at 11:05:36 AM

Not specifically, no, but it did come up in a conversation about changing logos and removing monuments because they're associated with historical figures that did some unsavory things.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Total posts: 417,856
Top