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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105801: Dec 3rd 2015 at 6:40:18 AM

Well, one positive note I have to add is that the police apparently acted with extreme professionalism throughout the whole event. And I suppose we can bestow CNN with the faint praise of not running off with every idiotic tangent and reporting wild speculation as fact.

edited 3rd Dec '15 6:41:57 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#105802: Dec 3rd 2015 at 6:45:26 AM

Fox News is reporting that they recently returned from a trip to Saudi Arabia.

Which I don't believe.

Oh really when?
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#105803: Dec 3rd 2015 at 6:45:30 AM

We will prolly have an idea when the people who were in the shooting can get interviewed and stuff?

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#105804: Dec 3rd 2015 at 6:46:10 AM

Did anyone from the party survive?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105805: Dec 3rd 2015 at 6:51:21 AM

Yes, there were survivors. They didn't kill everyone there.

[up][up][up]Trust Fox to trace down every possible way to blame this on Islam.

edited 3rd Dec '15 6:51:50 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#105806: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:02:49 AM

I'm not sold on any of the theories so far, I want to know more first, so I'll refrain from assuming.

What's worse are the gun control and gun rights nuts currently foaming at the mouth over this incident. Which irks the hell out of me, that they couldn't even wait for the dust to settle before doing their spiel.

edited 3rd Dec '15 7:11:39 AM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#105807: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:13:27 AM

The idea of them "snapping" is not completely irrational if you imagine the incident at the party as the tipping point.

Of course, just theories. Better to wait until the police have an official report on all that happened. Pretty certain the people actually at the shooting that survived will have a better idea than most.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#105808: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:15:37 AM

Multiple news sources are reporting that Malik (the wife) is originally from Pakistan, and had lived in Saudi Arabia for some time. Farook was born in the U.S., and his parents were immigrants from Pakistan.

Make of this what you will.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#105809: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:15:46 AM

[up][up][up]Everything used in this shooting was bought legally. That's a pretty big fucking deal.

edited 3rd Dec '15 7:15:57 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#105810: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:22:01 AM

[up]Yet, Cali has the most restrictive gun laws in the US only behind NY.

Inter arma enim silent leges
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#105811: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:24:34 AM

Since the SUV had a Utah tag, I'd say it wouldn't be a huge stretch for many or all of the guns to have been purchased in that state. Let's see...

Yep, according to Wikipedia, Utah has fairly permissive gun laws.

edited 3rd Dec '15 7:25:14 AM by TotemicHero

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#105812: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:25:35 AM

California may have restrictive laws but my understanding is that they're restrictive in stupid and useless ways. Like it's near impossible to get a concealed carry permit, certain cosmetic features are banned and more. But they're not actually restrictive when it comes to logical shit, like proper background checks or banning the private transfer of firearms.

This is all off the top of my head from old discussions on here though, so I could be wrong.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#105813: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:27:13 AM

[up][up][up]Even if they weren't bought in California they were still bought legally somewhere.

Almost every gun used in every crime in America was at some point bought through legitimate and legal means somewhere else in America.

If you want a gun in New York or California you buy one somewhere else and move it across state lines.

Unless it happens at a federal level all gun legislation is pointless.

edited 3rd Dec '15 7:27:24 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#105814: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:29:22 AM

California has a habit of ill-thought out laws, I feel. First three strikes and some weird tax rules, then electoral districts and gun laws. I wonder what comes up next.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#105815: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:32:44 AM

[up][up]Yes, because Federal Gun Control is the miracle cure that will solve are our problems.

[up]Marrying your dog?

edited 3rd Dec '15 7:35:00 AM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#105816: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:34:39 AM

Considering that the main problem with controlling illegal gun sales is the fact that the bans aren't enforceable across all states, yeah they kinda are.

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105817: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:36:05 AM

[up][up] Don't troll us with strawmen, please. Not now. Lest my ban finger get too itchy to resist.

edited 3rd Dec '15 7:36:19 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#105818: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:39:46 AM

Clearly we need ban control laws to keep Fighter in check, though should they be done at a section level or a forum wide level? tongue

edited 3rd Dec '15 7:40:32 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#105819: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:40:42 AM

Better make in Internet-wide level. It'll never work if it's limited to one website; he can just go become a mod on another one. tongue

edited 3rd Dec '15 7:41:01 AM by TotemicHero

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#105820: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:43:26 AM

Give me all the powers.

It will be fine.

You will see.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#105821: Dec 3rd 2015 at 7:54:44 AM

Even with a federal level law enforcement and regulations, there wouldn't be much to do.

No previous criminal background and plenty of time to go through any waiting period.

Unless you're willing to infringe a lot of rights and use preemptive profiling, there wasn't much any law could do to prevent this.

This shooting was certainly planned, one way or another they'd pull this off.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#105822: Dec 3rd 2015 at 8:00:10 AM

"Since the SUV had a Utah tag, I'd say it wouldn't be a huge stretch for many or all of the guns to have been purchased in that state. Let's see...

Yep, according to Wikipedia, Utah has fairly permissive gun laws. "

The ATF forbids the purchase of firearms in states in which you are not a resident because of concerns of illegal transport. If you have a California drivers license you can buy firearms in the state of California. The only exception I know of is active duty US military who have their home of residence in one state but are stationed in another. In that case you can buy in both states but you have to present a copy of your orders stationing you in the state in which you are not a permanent resident.

At least that was my experience when I last bought a weapon about 8 months ago.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#105823: Dec 3rd 2015 at 8:14:57 AM

[up]

First I've heard of that - I know that most of the guns used in crimes in NYC and California get bought from more permissive States, though.

NY Daily News article, and NY Times article as backup.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#105824: Dec 3rd 2015 at 8:16:14 AM

[up][up]As far as I know its also illegal to transfer or transport weapons across state lines or its supposed to be. Of course my dad still managed to get his from Maryland to New York when my family was moving by sticking them in the U-Haul.

So nothing surprises me anymore.

edited 3rd Dec '15 8:16:40 AM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#105825: Dec 3rd 2015 at 8:16:17 AM

I suspect that such guns are purchased via straw purchases, so they are purchased legally by a resident then sold with no background check or regulation to the real buyer.

It's almost as if allowing the transfers of firearms by unlicensed randoms is a bad idea.

edited 3rd Dec '15 8:17:23 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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