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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105701: Dec 2nd 2015 at 3:21:13 PM

Well, these guys had a plan of escape. They weren't suicide attackers.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#105702: Dec 2nd 2015 at 3:22:10 PM

Hope their is a hell for them to roast in.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#105703: Dec 2nd 2015 at 3:22:12 PM

What exactly were they doing? Why were they wearing full body armor if they were attacking a developmental disability clinic?

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#105704: Dec 2nd 2015 at 3:23:40 PM

[up] People like them often try to use a killing to lure out the cops, so they can die in a "glorious" last stand.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105705: Dec 2nd 2015 at 3:24:05 PM

It seems that there may have been another group there that was being targeted, but nothing is known for sure yet.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#105706: Dec 2nd 2015 at 3:24:59 PM

[up][up][up] In order:

1. No clue, until the final report comes out

2. In case they got into a firefight with the Police or someone inside the building.

3. It sounds like they were after someone specific. It hardly sounds randomized, they got in, and got out.

edited 2nd Dec '15 3:26:41 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105707: Dec 2nd 2015 at 3:26:33 PM

The police are confirming that one suspect is down after what appears to have been a massive shootout. Based on the gigantic pool of blood in the street, I don't think they'll be getting a trial.

Edit: There may be some kind of standoff with the remaining suspects.

edited 2nd Dec '15 3:29:02 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#105708: Dec 2nd 2015 at 3:31:31 PM

There's only one way this is going to end then.

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105709: Dec 2nd 2015 at 3:52:27 PM

The local helicopter cameraman seems to think that there's a second suspect in the vehicle, who would indisputably be dead given how it's being handled. The care the police were taking in advancing on the SUV would be consistent with their belief that there was someone else inside.

To my completely inexpert eye, it seems that the police confronted the suspects' vehicle, had a massive firefight that killed at least two people inside, and are now trying to determine if there's anyone else at large.

CNN is continuing to report 14 people dead at the site of the shooting, plus 17 injured.

Edited to add: At a press conference with the local police, we have just been informed that the police are dealing with one or two suspects at the site of the SUV battle, and are trying to determine if a third is at large.

edited 2nd Dec '15 4:18:31 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#105710: Dec 2nd 2015 at 4:37:37 PM

Well, their plan of escape clearly was where their plan broke down. Jesus.

@Jack: While Isis is indeed a possibility in all of this, much more local attackers are FAR, FAR more likely. It's the whole "if you hear hooves in the park you shouldn't assume it's zebras" thing. Isis hasn't shown any ability or even any actual intention to control anything outside of the Middle East; anything about attacking the US is likely to be hot air. Right wing militants that actually live here in the US is just far more likely than any Isis attack, and anyone who insists on Isis being the culprit is basically harping on the more unlikely answer while being bigots. Hell, left wing militants are more likely, again simply for the fact of being people who live in this country as opposed to a foreign one.

So yeah, when a small scale attack like this happens Isis is not going to be the first thing that occurs to me. It's going to be the groups that are homegrown. Quite frankly, the worst danger to the US is, sadly, frequently its own citizens.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#105711: Dec 2nd 2015 at 4:42:52 PM

Adding to that, the FBI was made repeated warning that right wing domestic terror groups and Sovereign Citizens are by far and away the greatest threat in the United States right now.

Oh really when?
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#105712: Dec 2nd 2015 at 4:47:05 PM

[up][up] I never said the attackers couldn't be the far right. The reason I said ISIS was because, to me, the tactics they used seemed like the ones ISIS used in Paris. I will not at all be surprised if this turns out to be Neo Nazi's.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105713: Dec 2nd 2015 at 4:47:32 PM

The police are now reporting that the suspects are down, plural, meaning that the active threat seems to be over. One officer was wounded in the shootout that took them out. One suspect appears to have a home in the area, making at least one a local.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#105714: Dec 2nd 2015 at 4:48:14 PM

[up][up]Not quite, all the ISIS agents in Paris had bomb vests and had planned it as a suicide attack from the beginning.

These guys had a clear get away plan and body armor. They had no intention of dying anytime soon.

edited 2nd Dec '15 4:49:24 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105715: Dec 2nd 2015 at 4:49:35 PM

[up] It seems that they anticipated evading immediate capture, and had no plan for what to do if the police caught up to them before they cleared the area. They had assault rifles and explosives, apparently, because they were throwing what seem to be pipe bombs out of their vehicle as they fled police.

Either that or they anticipated a final shootout. This is a very strange case; the attack seems to make no obvious sense.

edited 2nd Dec '15 4:50:54 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#105716: Dec 2nd 2015 at 4:51:26 PM

[up][up]So from the start any comparison to Isis was off. Jack, you kept insisting on Isis despite it not being obvious at all and got annoyed at others for assuming far right attackers from our own country.

[up]Well, if they all died in the shoot out we may not get a straight answer about why they chose the target they did. Sometimes all you get in these situations is an educated guess.

edited 2nd Dec '15 4:52:39 PM by AceofSpades

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105717: Dec 2nd 2015 at 4:52:57 PM

The use of pipe bombs is reminiscent of the Boston Marathon bombing; it's sometimes done as an escape tactic, to force the police to veer off.

Edit: CNN is interviewing some folks who are speculating that they intended to conduct additional attacks, specifically because they remained in the area when they had ample opportunity to flee.

edited 2nd Dec '15 4:56:29 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#105718: Dec 2nd 2015 at 5:00:59 PM

[up][up]

Just because the MO doesn't line up doesn't necessarily prove it wrong. I'm still waiting on more info.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#105719: Dec 2nd 2015 at 5:06:05 PM

[up][up][up]I thought it matched ISIS's MO,primarily because of the number of attackers,I've never heard of a far right attack with more than two people involved, and because of the Military like precision that was apparently shown, like the attacks in Paris. I never stated that it was certainly ISIS, only that it was a possibility.

Edit: But your right about the lack of suicide vests, that lends even more credence to the far right, or a bunch of Columbine Shooter wannabe's with no discernible political aim.

edited 2nd Dec '15 5:07:40 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#105720: Dec 2nd 2015 at 5:08:36 PM

Another possibility could disgruntled former gov employees (apparently the gathering was a local gov agency- department of rec or something).

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#105721: Dec 2nd 2015 at 5:13:39 PM

[up] I don't think they'd go from pissed at the feds to "lets go kill some children."

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#105722: Dec 2nd 2015 at 5:15:48 PM

I'm seeing reports that there was a holiday party being held there, and that this whole thing may have come out of an argument at said party.

So...Merry Christmas? sad

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105723: Dec 2nd 2015 at 5:22:39 PM

A party fight turns into an armed assault by two or three individuals with military hardware? Must have been a serious disagreement. I'm going to express extreme skepticism.

CNN is interviewing a reporter who was right on the scene, driving, near the shootout between police and the suspects.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#105724: Dec 2nd 2015 at 5:22:48 PM

[up][up]Doubt it was it, they were to well equipped for idiots who decided to shoot children over a stupid argument at a party. They had to plan this. Which makes their act in my view even more appealing, they had to look at themselves in the mirror everyday for god knows how long and believe that this was the right thing to do.

edited 2nd Dec '15 5:23:01 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#105725: Dec 2nd 2015 at 5:24:44 PM

[up]

I really doubt that, considering how well-prepared they were.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"

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