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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Keybreak (Long Runner)
#105601: Dec 1st 2015 at 5:58:52 PM

Eeeeeevery sperm is saaaaacred...

Paaaaage toppers are weeeeeeird...

edited 1st Dec '15 5:59:23 PM by Keybreak

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#105602: Dec 1st 2015 at 6:00:55 PM

[up][up]No, that's not the Catholic position, that's a strawman - I think that's been said before in the Filum Romanum thread.

Otherwise, you're about correct - anticontraceptive attitudes are generally tied in with anti-nonmarital-sex attitudes and are not tied to the abortion issue, except inasmuch as the same people (Planned Parenthood) provide both.

edited 1st Dec '15 6:01:16 PM by Ramidel

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#105603: Dec 1st 2015 at 6:19:33 PM

Other than the "reproduction should only come from sex" part, that's my understanding of the issue.

I share the view that contraception is better than abortion though. Still think not having sex would be better, but also realistic enough to know that cause is ridiculously lost in modern culture.

I'm baaaaaaack
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105604: Dec 1st 2015 at 6:31:34 PM

[up] It's lost in all culture. Seriously, any view of any historical period EVER that doesn't acknowledge that people are having all kinds of sex, in all kinds of arrangements, all the time, with or without the consent of whatever authority tries to regulate it is just boneheadedly ignorant.

The only variables are how open it is, how accepted it is, and how many people are hurt by stupid ideas about it.

Don't let your personal attitudes about sex blind you to the truth: most people want it and a significant majority of those will get it no matter what anyone does to stop them. The least we can do as a culture is try to make it as safe as possible.

edited 1st Dec '15 6:34:07 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#105605: Dec 1st 2015 at 6:41:13 PM

An argument that "teenagers shouldn't have sex, but they will anyway, so we should try to mitigate the damage by teaching them how to have sex safely" is about as mixed a message as one can send, and the only reason that liberals can get away with saying something like that is because it's the best that anyone can come up with. Saying that right-wing Christians should accept it is a little excessive (then again, they have a solution, but it's one that modern liberals won't accept...).
"Don't have sex and if you do use protection" is the same kind of statement as "Don't drink underage and if you do don't drive drunk," yet I've yet to hear of anyone railing against Every 15 Minutes and such for promoting drunkenness.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#105606: Dec 1st 2015 at 8:42:05 PM

On the subject of IT that was being discussed a few pages back, the problem is that IT is expensive and no one wants to pay for it. This goes double for government IT, which tends to have more stringent requirements (in terms of keeping records around) and less money to do it with (thanks to the Republican party trying to "starve the beast").

The biggest problem is people (ie, upper management) who considers computer systems a purchase when it's really a process. It shouldn't be "okay, here's a million dollars, build us a new system", it should be "okay, here's half a million dollars a year for the next infinity years, make sure our system stays modern".

Of course, when money's tight (as it usually is for profit-seeking companies and always is for government agencies, thanks to Congress), IT expenses are typically one of the first things to get cut.

Hell, I've read articles discussing the fact that the government has trouble hiring (and retaining) qualified IT people, because "government IT job" means "get told to do more than you would in the private sector, with fewer resources than you would have in the private sector, for less money than you'd make in the private sector". So people leave and go get an easier, better-paying private sector job.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#105607: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:28:19 PM

Well, first, the statement ignores female birth control entirely, which is quite a bit more expensive than condoms. It places the entire burden of birth control on the male partner, requiring the female to be abstinent if she doesn't want to place her (literal) future in the hands of the guy (literally and figuratively) screwing her.

You do realize that women are fully capable of buying condoms themselves and insisting their male lovers put them on before sex, right?

I agree that that statement was stupid, since a) the drugs used for birth control pills also have other medicinal uses, in which case preventing pregnancy is merely a side-effect, and b) since both condoms and birth control pills occasionally fail, a cautious person may want to use both for a double layer of protection.

However, since condoms are the only form of birth control that also protects against sexually transmitted diseases, the attitude that only men should take the initiative to procure condoms is not a healthy one.

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#105608: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:58:40 PM

I will admit that antibiotic-resistant ST Ds tends to put me in a "Not my fucking problem" mode.

You want to have bareback sex with strangers, you better be aware of the consequences. STD is bad enough. Antibiotic-resistant STD... hah...

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105609: Dec 1st 2015 at 10:06:35 PM

[up][up] True, the female can also buy condoms and insist that their partners use them. That doesn't account for rape and other involuntary circumstances, nor is it 100% effective. As you said, it's better to layer protection, such as using birth control pills (which have other beneficial side-effects), an IUD, etc.

STDs are an important issue, too, but they are secondary in my mind to the main purpose of contraceptives.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#105610: Dec 1st 2015 at 10:29:39 PM

One of the problems with mainly focusing on birth control, when it comes to sex, is that it has to go head to head with "men should sow their oats" and "women should have babies".

However, if you switch the main focus to STD's or at least give STD equal importance as birth control, people - especially the young, inexperienced, virgins - would at least get a cluebat to the face and be forced to think of sex in terms of personal health, ala harmful bacteria and viruses and cancer.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#105611: Dec 2nd 2015 at 12:40:58 AM

buy Trojans
Wait, that's a condom brand?

Why??

Why would anyone do that?

Trojans had such sloppy security that they got ass****** by a horse full of parasites. Whose bright idea was it to name a condom brand after them?


Nearly all anti-abortion groups believe that life starts during or after conception, not before. In fact, it's considered to be a strawman argument against said group.
Didn't some southern state pass a law decreeting life starts two weeks before conception, in a blatant attemt to circumnavigate federal laws about minimum abortion deadlines?

edited 2nd Dec '15 12:44:39 AM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#105612: Dec 2nd 2015 at 12:43:35 AM

That seems like rather an outsized reaction to a brand name.

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#105613: Dec 2nd 2015 at 12:46:28 AM

@Ace of Spades: well, would YOU trust Klutz the Surgeon to operate on you?

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#105614: Dec 2nd 2015 at 12:53:04 AM

Actually, to be fair, the Trojans had really big walls around their city that were just impossible to get past. Which is what necessitated going all Solid Snake and sneaking in on the Trojan Horse.

As for how good the metaphor is, it depends on how you look at it. It's kind of like if you made a "Jericho Condom"-yeah, the walls of Jericho fell, but they were nonetheless really nice walls.

Another example is like calling someone or something a "Dinosaur". Dinosaurs are extinct (aside from birds), but nonetheless, they were extraordinarily successful and likely only went extinct because of a freak accident.

Leviticus 19:34
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#105615: Dec 2nd 2015 at 12:59:06 AM

See, considering that trojan brand condoms have been around a while, I'm going to assume that they've proven the quality of the product by now. Most people don't really know the story of the fall of Troy anyway, and probably don't make the connection.

Also, condoms are not a person I expect to do surgery on me. You're still overreacting. (Also if Klutz is a surgeon I'm going to assume he just has an unfortunate name, considering exactly how much training it takes to be a surgeon, so your comparison falls apart. Trustworthiness shouldn't be based on names alone.)

So yeah, you're still overreacting over a very small thing and sort of derailing the topic.

edited 2nd Dec '15 12:59:18 AM by AceofSpades

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#105616: Dec 2nd 2015 at 1:00:14 AM

It takes two (or more) to derail, so I suggest people cut it.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#105617: Dec 2nd 2015 at 2:13:00 AM

I have been binge-watching the Last Week Tonight segments available on Youtube last week, and the one about Sex Education is tightly related to the conversation on contraception. Basically, whenever the topic of sex is involved, logic runs away because there are so many taboos having a calm, level-headed conversation is next to impossible.

If more kids were exposed to the kind of clip that is shown at the end of the video, things would definitely be better.

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#105618: Dec 2nd 2015 at 3:39:00 AM

@fighteer modern culture is included in "any culture, so that changes nothing about what I said.

I'm baaaaaaack
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105619: Dec 2nd 2015 at 4:47:01 AM

[up] You implied that there is a time and/or culture in which sex is not a common activity, if not the most common.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#105620: Dec 2nd 2015 at 4:58:46 AM

Now see, if memory serves right in most of the US only about ~50% of all 17-year olds have had sexual intercourse once. That is not a large number.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#105621: Dec 2nd 2015 at 5:12:59 AM

[up] I'm more interested in how they get the 1 out of 4 American teens has an STD stat.

And there's also the 1 out of 3 stat for the general population.

I expect it will get worse when the antibiotic-resistant strains become more prevalent.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#105622: Dec 2nd 2015 at 6:29:26 AM

Re: the IT:

And don't even get me STARTED on HEALTH IT issues.

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#105623: Dec 2nd 2015 at 6:56:53 AM

[up][up]Small nitpick from someone studying biology/medicine: you should say treatment resistant rather than antibiotic resistant. Antibiotics only have an effect on bacteria, and there are relatively few bacterial STIs. About the only 2 that have any general name recognition are Syphilis and Chlamydia.

Viruses like HIV, HPV, and others that are a much bigger worry than, say, Chlamydia, have nothing to do with antibiotics. And yes, some are becoming treatment resistant, (hell, HIV mutates all the frigging time just due to it's nature) and there are tons of youngsters getting infected with them because their knowledge of the matter consists of just being preached at or having a condom chucked at them.

Yeah, turns out that there's a lot more to know about sex and sexual health, both in terms of avoiding infection and having a positive sex life, than that.

edited 2nd Dec '15 6:57:24 AM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#105624: Dec 2nd 2015 at 7:29:15 AM

[up]. Agreed. Though atm, I'm inclined to go with using antibiotic-resistance superbugs as a cluebat rather than vaccines because too many people are mis-using / overdosing on antibiotics, especially in the meat industry.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#105625: Dec 2nd 2015 at 10:59:11 AM

Donald Trump states that to take down ISIS we need to "take out their families."

Also want to note I deliberately chose a Fox News article to make the point that, assuming they're interested in doing so, not even they can whitewash that claim. And if anyone was going to try, I'd think it'd be them.


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