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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
majoraoftime (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#105452: Nov 27th 2015 at 4:58:02 PM

Shooting people is the most pro-life of activities, surely.

storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#105453: Nov 27th 2015 at 8:10:14 PM

CT scans that Medicare prices at 800 USD becomes +6500 USD.

Keep in mind that this is a particularly extreme example. Some hospitals charge 10x the normal price, but it's not like every hospital does. The real problem is that a few hospitals are getting away with charging like crazy due to the dysfunctional healthcare system. Also, people without insurance get gouged.

For what it's worth, I recently went to the ER and got a CT scan, and it was billed at $557, of which I'll have to pay $100.44 out of pocket. Of course, it's an in-network hospital, so if they tried to overcharge, the insurance company would just tell them to stuff it anyway.

edited 27th Nov '15 8:10:58 PM by storyyeller

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#105454: Nov 27th 2015 at 8:23:04 PM

I got a CT scan of my head and it cost 557 dollars as a self-payer. I managed to get away with only paying like, 60% of that, since they don't want it to just become another bad debt expense.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#105456: Nov 28th 2015 at 3:19:59 AM

I do hope someone throws this in Ted Cruz's face.

In better news, Donald Trump is finally dropping significantly in the polls. Is it wrong that I kinda want him to win the nomination anyway? If someone semi-respectable like, say, Marco Rubio wins the game, they might actually have a shot at winning the presidency.

Kzickas Since: Apr, 2009
#105457: Nov 28th 2015 at 5:10:03 AM

I do hope someone throws this in Ted Cruz's face.

Hopefully not. I can see that backfiring very easily.

edited 28th Nov '15 5:10:43 AM by Kzickas

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#105459: Nov 28th 2015 at 6:02:51 AM

At the moment, we don't know what motivated the shooter. It's not hard to guess, but for all we know he had an ex that worked there or was a disgruntled former employee.

That said, I really feel bad for the people in Colorado Springs because this is the second shooting in a fucking month. The last guy that went on a spree did it on Halloween, killing 3 people including two women that were sitting on the porch of the rehab clinic they were staying in.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#105460: Nov 28th 2015 at 6:22:11 AM

Fox News is already trying to portray that he was there by mistake, that he was really a bank robber that got lost. Cue eyrollheaddesk

Trump delenda est
Kzickas Since: Apr, 2009
#105461: Nov 28th 2015 at 6:36:10 AM

How so?

The pro-choice side has a history of underestimating the level of popular support the anti-abortion movement has. Feeling that they are being blamed unfairly could potentially drive a lot of swing voters to the conservative side before the election.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#105462: Nov 28th 2015 at 7:00:01 AM

The left needs to make sure this was directly related to PP and abortion before they start talking, otherwise they look no better than Republicans who call every incident a ISIS/AQ style attack before anything is known and then (no matter what the cause) say it would have been fine had the bystanders been armed.

I'm just waiting for one of the GOP candidates to fumble this incident.

On the issue of Trump falling, I think it was CNN who posted an Op-Ed doubting Trump's ability to survive the Paris attack. He'd go full fascist, get a bit of short term support and then his relatively moderate supports move on (the less racist ones who are mostly behind him to fight the establishment).

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#105463: Nov 28th 2015 at 7:20:28 AM

[up] A Reuters poll did show Trump dropping about 12 points from his highest approval mark so far

Take both that and the polls in general with a big grain of salt though, because political polling has been getting pretty terrible in recent times.

So far I've not seen anyone besides news hounds pointing out that this attack is likely by anti-choice groups and if so, should absolutely be considered a domestic terrorist attack instead of "a lone wolf nut job". It's also worth remembering that in September the FBI noted that attacks on abortion facilities or any sort of women's health/reproductive care facilities were going up and expected them to increase further, and it's also generally helpful to keep in mind that abortion and reproductive health facilities get attacked, usually by arson, at least a few times every year.

So it's not like violent extremist groups haven't been making these attacks before. If this latest one was due to that, then it'll just be a ramping up of those efforts.

edited 28th Nov '15 7:33:31 AM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#105464: Nov 28th 2015 at 7:29:32 AM

Why the Economic Fates of America’s Cities Diverged Places like St. Louis and New York City were once similarly prosperous. Then, 30 years ago, the United States turned its back on the policies that had been encouraging parity.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Kzickas Since: Apr, 2009
#105465: Nov 28th 2015 at 7:37:53 AM

The left needs to make sure this was directly related to PP and abortion before they start talking, otherwise they look no better than Republicans who call every incident a ISIS/AQ style attack before anything is known and then (no matter what the cause) say it would have been fine had the bystanders been armed.

That might make a difference if the population was split 20/80, but it's closer to 50/50. That means there's to many people who are emotionally invested in the antiabortionists not being the bad guys. Any attack will give them an escape by letting them instead blame the pro-choice side for "politicizing the tragedy".

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#105466: Nov 28th 2015 at 7:47:44 AM

[up]

In this case, though, they've got the guy alive - so the motives that drove him can be made abundantly clear, whether it be disgruntled former employee or anti-choice nutter.

And yes, with someone that takes the view so far as to take lives, it is anti-choice instead of pro-life.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#105467: Nov 28th 2015 at 8:02:48 AM

I really hate the terms pro life and pro choice.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#105468: Nov 28th 2015 at 8:10:13 AM

[up]

Political necessity, coupled with emphasizing that they're in favor of something, rather than being against something. With assholes that try to kill clinic staff, though, the term "pro-life" would be an utter misnomer.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#105469: Nov 28th 2015 at 8:16:49 AM

[up] I know why they chose those terms, that doesn't mean I like them.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#105470: Nov 28th 2015 at 8:20:44 AM

@Jack: thanks for posting the article from The Atlantic. I've been reading through it over the course of the last half hour or so and it's an extremely informative read about economic disparities that have grown and it's really shocking to see some of the numbers that article lays out.

A few examples of what I'm talking about:

Until the early 1980s, a long-running feature of American history was the gradual convergence of income across regions. The trend goes back to at least the 1840s, but grew particularly strong during the middle decades of the 20th century. This was, in part, a result of the South catching up with the North in its economic development. As late as 1940, per-capita income in Mississippi, for example, was still less than one-quarter that of Connecticut. Over the next 40 years, Mississippians saw their incomes rise much faster than did residents of Connecticut, until by 1980 the gap in income had shrunk to 58 percent.

Yet the decline in regional equality wasn’t just about the rise of the “New South.” It also reflected the rising standard of living across the Midwest and Mountain West—or the vast territory now known dismissively in some quarters as “flyover states.” In 1966, the average per-capita income of greater Cedar Rapids, Iowa, was only $87 less than that of New York City and its suburbs. Ranked among the country’s top 25 richest metro areas in the mid-1960s were Rockford, Illinois; Milwaukee, Wisconsin; Ann Arbor, Michigan; Des Moines, Iowa; and Cleveland, Ohio.

During this period, to be sure, many specific metro areas saw increases in local inequality, as many working- and middle-class families, as well as businesses, fled inner-city neighborhoods for fast-expanding suburbs. Yet in their standards of living, metro regions as a whole, along with states as a whole, were growing much more similar. According to data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis, in 1940, Missourians earned only 62 percent as much as Californians; by 1980 they earned 80 percent as much. In 1969, per capita income in the St. Louis metro area was 83 percent as high as in the New York metro area; it would rise to 90 percent by the end of the 1970s.

...

The Atlanta metro area is a notable example of a “thriving” place where per capita income has nonetheless fallen farther and farther behind that of cities like Washington, New York, and San Francisco. So is metro Houston. Per-capita income in metro Houston was 1 percent above metro New York’s in 1980. But despite the so-called “Texas miracle,” Houston’s per-capita income fell to 15 percent below New York’s by 2011 and even at the height of the oil boom in 2013 remained at 12 percent below. It’s largely the same story in the Mountain West, including in some of its most “booming” cities. Metro Salt Lake City, for example, has seen its per capita income fall well behind that of New York since 2001.

I've known for a while that the deregulation and the small government movement starting in the 80s screwed the hell out of the country, but I've never seen it laid out in black and white like that.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#105471: Nov 28th 2015 at 9:33:59 AM

@Rationalinsanity: You say that like there hasn't been a very clear pattern of people attacking PP and abortion clinics specifically for that purpose. There's been a disturbingly clear pattern for years and years of attacking such places for specifically that purpose. So I'm calling bullshit on this "no better than" commentary.

Frankly, the fact that the FBI expects such attacks to increase is deeply troubling, and should be talked about.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#105472: Nov 28th 2015 at 10:58:43 AM

The 43% high mark for Trump seems to be an outlier though. What he fell back to is in line with where he's been polling for months now.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#105473: Nov 28th 2015 at 12:23:53 PM

[up][up]Oh, its BS but the commentary will still happen. But if this incident turns out not to be ideologically motivated (unlikely) anyone who says it was beforehand is opening themselves and the pro-choice movement to political backlash.

Talking about securing PP clinics is obviously a good idea, and frankly should be going on already. As are policy discussions about the violent wing of the anti-choice movement. But using this specific incident is risky until we know its not a mundane crime due to mental illness or personal factors rather than the anti-choice terror attack it appears to be.

edited 28th Nov '15 12:29:29 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#105474: Nov 28th 2015 at 12:35:57 PM

I think you're overestimating the effect of the backlash: somehow I doubt supporters will stop being supporters, and the political strike back against PP has already been happening without this incident and is unlikely to be made all that much stronger by it.

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#105475: Nov 28th 2015 at 12:42:24 PM

should absolutely be considered a domestic terrorist attack instead of "a lone wolf nut job".

I fail to see why one invalidates the other. a domestic terrorist attack can be done by a "lone wolf nutter".

Because regardless of his motivations, that's what he is. I don't know any pro-life groups, even those where it's really "Pro-life", who encourage violence, much less murder. Though I'm from the Catholic side of things so I can't speak for the evangelical groups who cry pro-life for the unborn but are a bit more flexible once they're out.

edited 28th Nov '15 12:45:10 PM by Joesolo

I'm baaaaaaack

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