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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#105101: Nov 17th 2015 at 6:57:52 PM

Even if they let them in I think the Republicans have been too antagonistic to get widespread support from Muslims.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#105102: Nov 17th 2015 at 9:06:03 PM

Chris Christie's refugee comments oddly seem more like a slam on Obama than anything else. He says we can't trust this President to properly vet the Syrian refugees, which seems to imply that, if he were President, that might not be the case.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#105103: Nov 17th 2015 at 10:26:51 PM

[up][up]Which is just another massive mistake on the GOP's part. Muslims, like Hispanics, aren't exactly outside of the GOP sphere when it comes to many issues. If the GOP wasn't out for them they could get a decent number of either group. Hell, Bush managed to grab 45% of the Hispanic vote in 04.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#105104: Nov 17th 2015 at 10:44:30 PM

The GOP could swing a lot of votes if they weren't so insistent on being completely brain-dead on race issues. People talk about the religious right all the time, but they forget that the religious left is a thing, too — they tend to agree with Republicans on social issues (opposing gay marriage and abortion) but disagree on economic issues (they support highly progressive tax rates in order to fund things like social safety nets and education). You'd expect people with mixed views like that to be mixed between Republican and Democrats depending on which issues they found more important, but the religious left also tends to be largely black and hispanic, and Republican racial politics completely turn them off, so they vote almost exclusively Democrat.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#105105: Nov 17th 2015 at 10:50:18 PM

You guys are assuming that this is a miscalculation on the GOP's part and that white supremacy isn't a core part, if not the core part, of their politics.

Oh really when?
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#105106: Nov 17th 2015 at 10:51:35 PM

Yeah, but a lot of the backers of the religious right (the Kochs, for example) don't want any of the stuff that the religious left want. For example, "unenforceable yet strict immigration law" benefits companies that want to use immigrant laborers who can't complain to OSHA or strike. There's no coalition there.

You're assuming good faith where there isn't any.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105107: Nov 18th 2015 at 6:39:39 AM

It is a serious mistake to assume good faith on the part of any of the major players in the GOP. The Obamacare debate should have settled that once and for all. To determine if a Republican is intellectually honest, ask them if they supported the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act when it was a Heritage Foundation proposal or Mitt Romney's darling program in Massachusetts. Then ask them if they support Obamacare.

If they hem and haw about it being a "states' rights" issue, they are lost to us and there's no point in continuing the conversation.

edited 18th Nov '15 6:41:30 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#105108: Nov 18th 2015 at 6:55:04 AM

Politico uncovers the Koch Brothers' personal Intelligence Agency that's headed by a former CIA operative named Mike Roman.

Said agency has been created as the Kochs' counter to the left's seemingly unbeatable strength on the air waves, the ground and the data frontier.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105109: Nov 18th 2015 at 6:56:59 AM

Not only have the Kochs sponsored their own right-wing intelligence agency, but they stole a lot of data from the RNC to kick it off. This little turf war should have been worth a great deal of popcorn, but the media has largely dropped it.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#105110: Nov 18th 2015 at 6:58:58 AM

WTF...only supervillains have their own personal intelligence agencies.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105111: Nov 18th 2015 at 7:00:42 AM

The Kochs are modern day supervillains: Montgomery Burns given flesh and split into twins.

Edited.

edited 18th Nov '15 7:44:23 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#105112: Nov 18th 2015 at 7:35:20 AM

Dang. Raid their basement and stop their salt circle and puppy blood sacrifices. That ought to put a stop to them.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#105113: Nov 18th 2015 at 7:41:07 AM

Montgomery Burns. George Burns was... what, an actor?

LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#105114: Nov 18th 2015 at 7:41:17 AM

Could they be worse than Cheney?

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#105115: Nov 18th 2015 at 7:44:33 AM

[up][up] Goddammit. tongue Fixed.

[up] Cheney is a Sith Lord of the Palpatine persuasion — committed to a World Order that ensures that his military-industrial backers call the shots. Violence and death are part of the package — necessary, in fact, to provide a stable source of demand for all the guns and tanks and bombs. He's a Cold War-era warmonger.

The Kochs are Libertarian-Objectivist ideologues — committed to a world free of pesky regulations telling them what they have to pay their workers and whether they have to provide safety equipment or even job training. They are plutocrats in the Andrew Carnegie tradition, only without even the slightest sense of social responsibility. Theirs is a dog-eat-dog world in which wealth = moral worth. Ironic, since they inherited theirs.

edited 18th Nov '15 7:52:24 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#105116: Nov 18th 2015 at 7:46:03 AM

Cheney just shoots you.

Worse than being left alive.

Man, I am dissapointed no one is trying to rub Rubio's face with the Cuban immigration problem we have here. Why aren't you guys be a bit more knowledgeable in international politics of miserably irrelevant countries that have no bearing in the world at large and...oh...wait...

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#105117: Nov 18th 2015 at 7:53:13 AM

[up] Shoots you and makes you apologise afterwards.

[up][up] Speaking of inheritance, good God, the combined networth of those two is like 84 + billion $. That's overshadowing even Bill Gates. How are relations between them? Are Koch Industries fragmented? I'v head that they bought out their two others brothers in the past.

edited 18th Nov '15 8:01:31 AM by LogoP

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#105118: Nov 18th 2015 at 8:01:38 AM

For the record, I'm not assuming good faith on the part of GOP strategists. I'm not assuming anything. I'm just stating a fact. There's a very large block of traditionally Democratic voters, mostly minorities, who would would have a decent chance of voting Republican because they agree on a lot of issues, if not for the fact that the Republican party's racial politics are so screwed up that it destroys any chance that they might support a Republican candidate.

Basically, demographic shift means that the Southern Strategy that's done well by the Republicans since Nixon is turning around to bite them in the ass and quite possibly costing them more votes than it's gaining them. Whether or not they'll be able to break out of the trap they built for themselves, or if they'll even make the attempt, is an open question.

edited 18th Nov '15 8:03:02 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#105119: Nov 18th 2015 at 8:45:45 AM

@ Fighteer:

Cheney is a Sith Lord of the Palpatine persuasion — committed to a World Order that ensures that his military-industrial backers call the shots. Violence and death are part of the package — necessary, in fact, to provide a stable source of demand for all the guns and tanks and bombs. He's a Cold War-era warmonger.

Only military-industrial businesses of his liking, though — if you piss him off, Cheney is the sort of person who will drive you out of business or force you into a merger.

edited 18th Nov '15 8:53:27 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#105120: Nov 18th 2015 at 12:25:43 PM

"Is a man not entitled to have access to his neighbor's information if he can afford to have it? 'No', says the man in Washington. 'Only the courts should provide that power!'"

And those shock jocks I mentioned the other day alleged that, while the attackers were Belgian and French citizens, most of them had come back from the training camps in Syria with the influx of refugees. Any truth to that, or are they talking out their asses?

And after perusing a USA Today article, apparently 2 of the 6 known attackers could have come in with the wave of refugees, and only one of them is confirmed to have done so.

edited 18th Nov '15 12:29:29 PM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#105121: Nov 18th 2015 at 12:48:45 PM

So to make things even better on the refugee front, Texas decides to combine it with gun control. Emphasis mine.

Sitting outside the Governor's mansion, with the French flag draped over a balcony railing like a spring break beach towel, Governor Greg Abbott held a photo op cloaked in a ceremony, complete with the requisite moment of silence to honor the victims of the Paris attacks. When the formalities were over, Abbott took the opportunity to explain to the press exactly why he has sent a letter to President Obama. The letter was to inform the Commaner in Chief that Texas will not be accepting any Syrian refugees should the Federal government have any bright ideas about relocating them in the state. Nip that in the bud.

Abbott's main reason for bolting the door on the Texas border? It's too difficult to tell the good-guy Syrians from the bad-guy terrorist Syrians. He did this with a straight face and without an iota of irony.

"They do not have the capability to distinguish between those refugees who can pose as terrorist, and those who may be innocent, and until the United States develops that capability it is essential that we do first things first, and that is and that is to keep the people of the state of Texas safe."

Okay, that sounds vaguely familiar, but not coming from Abbott's mouth ...

So next up is Rep Tony Dale (R-Cedar Park). Dale is standing behind Gov. Abbott in his decision of pulling up the drawbridge. Dale agrees with the governor on the whole "not knowing who is a terrorist thing", but takes it a step further.

Dale's reasoning to keep out refugees? It would be too easy for them to get their hands on guns, blaming current Texas laws for being so lax. You see, it isn't only white Texas patriots who can easily obtain a firearm in less time than it takes to watch an episoe of Walker Texas Ranger. Theoretically, a scary terrorist refugee could saunter into any gun store and have an AR-15 in his hands in less than an hour. So now they're afraid.

What they don't seem to realize is this and similar scenarios (terrorists buys a gun, mentally ill person buys a gun, freaked-out conspiracy theorist buys a gun, gang member buys a gun, drug addict buys a gun) could have taken place at any time, for years prior to the latest act of terror/excuse to hate more brown people.

This moronic outrate by Representative Dale is taking place in the very state where every Bubba, Dick, and Jim Bob can carry an assault weapon to the grocery store. Where the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Where the answer to every question conceivable is MORE GUNS! Where some of these guys buy guns for their guns. (I don't know that for sure, but I wouldn't doubt it, they love them so much.) Their only hope is GUNS.

In Texas, where the lawmakers - owned lock, stock, and barrel by the NRA, or simply possessed with a special kind of stupid only cultivated down there - passed all this legislation in the wake of the Newtown Massacre and because of the always imminent threat of the black guy in the White House coming for their guns.

Calling it a "security gap," Dale explained that under federal law, a refugee is granetd "special privileges" allowing them to get a drivers license to find work easier, which he believes would allow them to engage in terrorist activities.

"So they could get a job in the airport, for example and they could plant something on a plane like we saw in the Sinai Peninsula recently when the Russian airline was taken down, they could board a plane legally in the United States."

Perhaps Dale is just now getting a grasp on the gravity of Texas gun laws. To purchase a weapon in Texas, there is no waiting period and no registration or permit required. A resident need only show a state-issued ID. No background checks. Concealed carry, open carry, and stand your ground. All part of the new "guns everywhere" American society. Looks like forethought is not too plentiful in the Texas legislature.

Furthermore, Rep. Dale is requesting the Texas Speaker of the House, Joe Straus, to hold immediate hearings to close what he considers to be a Refugeee Drivers License Loophole (Is that anything like the gun show loop hole?). The main issue, the federal resettlement program, may have to be addressed on the federal level. Texas Congressman Michael Mc Caul is among those urging the resettlement program to stop.

"I think it would be highly irresponsible to bring in 10,000 Syrian refugees at this point in time. I've called upon the president to suspend this program."

Perhaps it would be the most compassionate and responsible thing not to relocate refugees in Texas. Those poor people have suffered enough.

edited 18th Nov '15 12:51:37 PM by BlueNinja0

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#105122: Nov 18th 2015 at 12:59:58 PM

What bugs me most is that the people advocating keeping refugees out don't understand is that it's a massive Catch-22.

If we let the refugees in, there's the possibility (no idea on how strong) of letting an active terrorist into the US - though I'm fairly certain that refugees are generally kept tabs on by local governments (if not Federal) for just such reasons.

However, by denying them any access, we give easy fuel to ISIS/ISIL to say "See, they don't care about you! We do, though, so join our fight against those that hate you anyway (neverminding the fact that it's because of us that they do so)!"

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#105123: Nov 18th 2015 at 1:03:16 PM

The refugees, like Santa Claus, are coming to town.

The thought that a wall can stop them is ludicrous, or the thought that policies will stop them.

They are coming.

Either choose to welcome them, or turn your back on them, see what breeds more resentment.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#105124: Nov 18th 2015 at 1:11:33 PM

On December 24th, in a flying red sleigh, and with a giant bag of presents?

In that case get em all green cards AND plates of milk and cookies.

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#105125: Nov 18th 2015 at 2:53:37 PM

[up]X3 It's almost as if ISIS knows all that and want it to happen, as if they're counting of radicalising rejected refuges, as if they might have deliberately planted passports so that "The West" would react this way...

I'm tempted to use that as my counter now, just go full troll mode and say to people wanting to ban refuges "Why are you trying to give ISIS what they want?".

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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