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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#104626: Nov 6th 2015 at 4:21:31 PM

I entirely forgot that Pataki was campaigning for the GOP nomination. As a NY person who grew up during his tenure as governor, where does he compare on the crazy scale right now? NY is pretty blue compared to other places in the country and I think NY's current health assistance program was enacted under his tenure (focused mainly on kids, AFAIK) but on the other hand, if you want someone who can tackle budget concerns and deadlocked legislatures, NY has not passed a budget on time in my lifetime.

Also, were there concerns about the Keystone plan other than "we should stop focusing on exploiting oil because global warming"? Cause while I generally agree that we should be working toward clean energy, I'd rather in the meantime that we buy oil from Canada than countries we have rocky and volatile relationships with.

That and, well, I got my driver's licence right when gas was hitting record high prices and staying there for years. I was shocked recently to see it below $2.50. The high price of gas has been a pretty big thing between me and being able to afford vehicle ownership and I'm not willing to take on debt to get a new electric/hybrid.

edited 6th Nov '15 4:24:13 PM by Elle

Mopman43 Since: Nov, 2013
#104627: Nov 6th 2015 at 4:26:44 PM

Well, to my understanding, the oil boom going on right now is making the tar sand more and more unprofitable, leading to the pipeline potentially not being very useful.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#104628: Nov 6th 2015 at 4:44:42 PM

The biggest thing is that tar sands is a particuarly unclean form of energy.

I mean, say what you will about fracking, but if I recall, it's cleaner (... CO 2 wise...) than other forms of fossil fuel usage.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#104629: Nov 6th 2015 at 4:46:32 PM

The oil going through the pipeline wasn't ever going to be sold in the US, anyway. It was just being transported through our land and being sold to everyone but us. So uh... maybe a thousand temp jobs and that would have been it for us.

But yeah, many factors have come together to make the pipeline not very desirable; intense protest in Nebraska, the mentioned oil boom, prices going down, the slow but building move over to renewable sources of power, Canada's own elections landing them with officials that aren't going to push the tar sands oil at all. All of that came together. Mind you, if we end up with a Republican president in this next election Transcanada will probably try to push the issue again. Probably. But I think an outright refusal by Obama now rather than accepting the withdrawal makes it harder to bring it back up later.

HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#104630: Nov 6th 2015 at 5:37:41 PM

@ kkhohoho

You know, the more I think about it, the more the Republicans seem like one big Hive Of Scum And Villainy, or at least a secret evil organization that's not so secret. (At all.

Isn't that what The Simpsons did (Springfield's Republicans meeting in a dark, spooky castle)?

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#104632: Nov 6th 2015 at 5:53:00 PM

[up][up][up][up]Natural gas by itself is less bad but the concearn about fracking, IIRC, was in large part to do with potential contamination of groundwater that supplies a lot of drinking water to those areas and a much more direct potential impact on human health. (My mother's family is from a part of NY where the issue is local. So far I think there's been enough resistance for it not to gain a foothold)

Adding: NY's banned it for now, apparently. Also, as greenhouse gasses go, there are design issues with the wells that if not solved, leak a lot of methane into the air, and methane is worse than CO 2 as greenhouse gasses go. Time and technology may make it doable but it's not all there at the moment.

edited 6th Nov '15 6:02:39 PM by Elle

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#104633: Nov 6th 2015 at 6:26:57 PM

[up]There's also the issue of the gas displacement/what have you causing earthquakes in places that don't normally experience those. Like here in Texas. Sinkholes are also a risk in such places.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#104634: Nov 6th 2015 at 6:48:03 PM

Canada is still going to supply like 40% of the US' oil, but it will mostly be with existing pipes and by rail.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#104635: Nov 6th 2015 at 9:02:14 PM

I've yet to see a running republican who truly seems to have the best interests of the wider American populace at heart, as opposed to the various racists, crazies
Trump's support shows that the number of racist crazies is sadly still pretty darn large.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#104636: Nov 6th 2015 at 9:04:43 PM

Yep, Trump and Republicans really do have the heartfelt interests of a great many Americans at heart.

Ethnic cleansing is one of their interests is all.

Oh really when?
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#104637: Nov 6th 2015 at 9:52:42 PM

And speaking of the crazy, Ben Carson's lie about West Point will probably help him. Possibly because it's ambiguous whether it's actually a lie. Emphasis mine.

In his acclaimed autobiography, Gifted Hands, Ben Carson says he had an offer and scholarship from the West Point military academy as a teenager, which he declined in favor of Yale University. “I was offered a full scholarship to West Point,“ Carson wrote, describing a meeting with Gen. William Westmoreland. ”I didn’t refuse the scholarship outright, but I let them know that a military career wasn’t where I saw myself going. As overjoyed as I felt to be offered such a scholarship, I wasn’t really tempted. The scholarship would have obligated me to spend four years in military service after I finished college, precluding my chances to go on to medical school."

There are immediate problems here. There are no scholarships to West Point—all costs are covered for all students. And the only way to get an offer is to apply, but the school has no record of Carson’s application. When pressed by Politico, Carson’s campaign conceded he never applied. “He was introduced to folks from West Point by his ROTC Supervisors,” explained his campaign manager, Barry Bennett. “They told him they could help him get an appointment based on his grades and performance in ROTC. He considered it but in the end did not seek admission.”

This prompted a story—“Ben Carson Admits Fabricating West Point Scholarship” was the original title—and a flurry of activity on Twitter, as Carson supporters and conservative defenders attacked Politico for smearing the former neurosurgeon. “It is true, Carson never applied and was never accepted to West Point,” wrote conservative activist Erick Erickson. “The Politico’s representation of that is demonstrably false and is not something Carson claimed.”

The Carson campaign has also responded. “He was told by the ROTC Commander that he could have an appointment,“ said Doug Watts, a spokesman for the campaign, to the Washington Post. “Dr. Carson rejected the offer, did not apply or pursue admission. Had he done so, and been accepted, that would have been tantamount to a scholarship, the same that all cadets receive."

So, is Politico right? Did Carson “fabricate” his West Point story?

If you judge by the text of his book, as well as other statements about the same story, the answer is not exactly. Carson never claimed that he applied to the school. And while West Point doesn’t give scholarships, it’s not hard to see how encouragement from authority figures—You’re a shoo-in—becomes, after years of telling and retelling, the tale of an offer and a scholarship. It’s just how memory works.

Carson is guilty of run-of-the-mill embellishment. Still, it’s tempting to say that this will harm his campaign. Embellishing about entrance to a military academy doesn’t look good, especially for someone who has built his campaign on honesty and integrity. Some Republicans might just recoil from the former neurosurgeon, in favor of someone else.

But I doubt it. Carson is extraordinarily well-liked among Republican voters—it will take more than an exaggeration to tank his ratings with the grassroots. And indeed, the fact that Politico has had to walk back from its initial claims will work in Carson’s favor. Now this is another case of the “liberal media” on a witch hunt against a strong, conservative Republican.

Far from hurting Ben Carson, this whole flap may strengthen his standing with Republicans, as they rally to defend him. Carson may well stumble in the race for the GOP nomination—I think it’s inevitable—but it won’t be over old memories of college applications.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#104638: Nov 7th 2015 at 12:15:05 AM

But. Politico's a Beltway Horserace Newspaper that was founded by fanboys of Bush and Cheney last I checked.

How do they count as Libuhrul Media.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#104639: Nov 7th 2015 at 12:40:06 AM

How do they count as Libuhrul Media.
They're not sucking the Tea Party's collective dicks? tongue

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#104640: Nov 7th 2015 at 2:52:29 AM

That said, I do expect this to lead to reporters pouring over the guy's entire history in full due to the sheer fuzziness, but I think Blue Ninja has a point that he's going to be able to wrap himself in a mantle.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#104641: Nov 7th 2015 at 10:19:01 AM

That's what people have been doing. The guy's memoir is full of it. Plus, the claim regarding West Point was that he received the offer from General Westmoreland (former chief of ops in Vietnam) himself, which was physically impossible because Westmoreland was in a completely different place at the time.

Politico's walking back because they realized they pissed off their base.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#104642: Nov 7th 2015 at 10:54:19 AM

Mother Jones: Ben Carson seems to have a serious personal honesty problem.

Basically a list of the known inconsistencies of Carson's past, including digging by the Wall Street Journal.

With all the papers digging into his past plus the Debate, I'm not sure he's going to survive. His opponents can easily paint him as having an Etch-A-Sketch History. "One minute he's a Thug stabbing people, one minute he's a Nerd in the classroom. What was he?".

Also as to concerns of Rubio, I suspect he's going to get eviscerated from the fact he walked back on his immigration reform. He might win the Floridian Cuban bloc of Latinos, if that's the calculus, but I don't see him grabbing much of the rest. Dude is going to immolate under sunlight like a vampire.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#104643: Nov 7th 2015 at 1:40:07 PM

He'll have trouble from both ends on immigration reform: for ever standing up for illegal immigrants, and for turning his back on them.

It is going to be *fun* watching Carson twist in the wind on Tuesday. Open season.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#104644: Nov 8th 2015 at 3:42:52 AM

Sanders punts on Carson's scholarship question, instead attacking his "absurd views" on Medicare.

This is interesting. As we know, Sanders refused to fight Hillary over her emails, which was a sign of class that didn't commit him to anything (and avoided getting him drawn into a useless nonstarter). But here, Sanders is making a principled refusal to get involved in a Republican's scandal, which may indicate that he's committing to not engaging in that kind of tactics and debating his opponents solely on the merits of their positions, without getting involved in challenges about their dirty laundry and scandals.

It's a bold move, and it may pay dividends if Sanders can maintain that position until a year from now. On the other hand, if he doesn't maintain that, he's opened himself up to attack.

Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#104645: Nov 8th 2015 at 3:59:13 AM

Sadly, the US debating rules probably won't let Sanders say "You're a fucking idiot and you should be set on fire."

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#104646: Nov 8th 2015 at 4:43:30 AM

In the US, being an idiot is considered a political plus.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#104647: Nov 8th 2015 at 4:44:04 AM

Until said idiocy gets a lot of people killed?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#104648: Nov 8th 2015 at 4:47:34 AM

But if that happens it's always someone else's fault.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#104649: Nov 8th 2015 at 5:00:39 AM

[up][up] Depends on the people killed. Bush's idiocy getting American soilders skilled hurt him, his same idiocy killing foreigners did not. The establishment idiocy that kills many younge black men isn't hurting the Republicans and barely hurts Democrats (it's taken BLM to make it hurt them at all realy).

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#104650: Nov 8th 2015 at 7:25:01 AM

I'm sitting in the lobby of my hotel which runs FOX News seemingly all the time. My favorite Republican candidate for the primaries is on, Carly Fiorina, talking about Zero-Based Budgeting. She says the idea behind Zero-Based Budgeting is to move away from the economic system where we only talk about increases or decreases in budgeting, resulting in agencies keeping permanent gains and no longer having to justify those in the future.

The idea behind Zero-Based Budgeting would be that instead, each agency has to be accountable for every part of its budget every year. In theory, this would mean that if, say, we gave one agency more money to handle an emergency situation, they wouldn't keep getting that much in the future; they would only have that budget for as long as they needed it.

I really like this concept but, again, the fact that I'm watching FOX News makes me paranoid. Also, I'm not even going to pretend I have an advanced knowledge in economic logistics and long-term consequences. Are there problems with Zero-Based Budgeting that I'm missing?

edited 8th Nov '15 7:26:52 AM by TobiasDrake

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