TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#104451: Nov 3rd 2015 at 11:24:07 AM

There is still another workaround though, nothing stops a former president running for congress and becoming speaker.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#104452: Nov 3rd 2015 at 11:30:16 AM

The question is if the former president wouldn't simply get skipped over in the line of succession (i think State Sec is in line after that). Similar to if one of the big Department heads were foreign born.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#104453: Nov 3rd 2015 at 11:30:55 AM

[up][up]Correct, nor a former President from becoming a Cabinet member, and eligible to succeed that way. Of course, one is implying a remarkable level of conspiracy that cannot be anything other than totally obvious to the public and the media.

[up] The Constitution skips over the question of what happens if one of the persons in the line of succession is ineligible to be President, but one imagines it would, logically, go to the first one who is.

Edit: I can't find where in the Constitution it says that the Speaker of the House succeeds the Vice President; it would seem to fall under the authority of Congress to legislate the succession.

edited 3rd Nov '15 11:37:16 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#104454: Nov 3rd 2015 at 12:00:52 PM

It's largely moot because usually the presidents are too exhausted by their term in the modern day to take on further high-level duties, and that's *if* they're not tainted by some aspect of their legacy. Even a relatively popular guy like Clinton would have been dodgy as an appointment for, say, Commerce Secretary under Obama, since then you're just bringing all the baggage back on you.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#104455: Nov 3rd 2015 at 12:03:22 PM

Interestingly, a strict reading of the Constitution indicates that a sufficiently united Congress could conduct an internal coup entirely legally by:

  1. Electing their preferred President as Speaker of the House.
  2. Impeaching and convicting both President and Vice President.

Some might observe that the power of the President and the Senate to replace the Vice President is a more direct path to an unelected individual becoming President, because that only requires 51 Senate votes followed by the President resigning his office, exactly as happened with Nixon and Ford.

edited 3rd Nov '15 12:06:07 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#104456: Nov 3rd 2015 at 12:15:34 PM

Yup. Exactly why they didn't want political parties. I guess they hoped enough people would have an attack of Conscience to not go through with it. Like what happened with Clinton.

I'm baaaaaaack
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#104457: Nov 3rd 2015 at 12:19:03 PM

Oh yeah, you get a disciplined 2/3rds and the legislature could do anything: veto overrides, impeach everyone, ram through amendments willy-nilly. The founders either didn't envision sufficiently disciplined political parties becoming a thing (and until recently, they largely weren't in the US, due to parties representing broad economic interests more than ideological ones), or figured that 2/3rds consensus is enough for "tyranny of the majority." So i'm probably betting they figured the former.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#104458: Nov 3rd 2015 at 12:33:24 PM

Reasonably speaking, the Senate, by more accurately representing the distribution of political opinion across the country, is the last bastion of defense against a Congressional coup, as it requires a two-thirds majority there to convict on impeachment, excluding such trickery as hijacking Senators to obtain your preferred quorum.

If you really do get that huge a supermajority opposed to the sitting President on ideological grounds, as opposed to because of genuine malfeasance, something has gone catastrophically wrong in our political system. I'm imagining Trump 2016, followed by a Democrat super-sweep in 2018 and a 2019 legislative coup...

edited 3rd Nov '15 12:40:45 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#104459: Nov 3rd 2015 at 12:57:12 PM

Trump 2016 would be throw out by the courts on the grounds that he must have cheated.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#104460: Nov 3rd 2015 at 12:58:27 PM

We'd all be nuclear waste by the end of Trump 2016.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#104461: Nov 3rd 2015 at 1:00:04 PM

Unless Congress goes batshit, it would take more than two years for Trump to destroy the country. I don't peg him as actively psychopathic, as would be indicated for anyone to come to the office and immediately launch nukes.

For him to be elected, though, might well indicate a Tea Party sweep of the national elections, out of which we would be damned lucky to extract a functioning nation in eight years. Fortunately, Congress would have the opportunity to change hands in 2018, and it almost certainly would.

edited 3rd Nov '15 1:01:53 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#104462: Nov 3rd 2015 at 1:01:13 PM

If Trump wins 2016, then congress will almost certainly also be batshit crazy.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#104463: Nov 3rd 2015 at 1:01:55 PM

Heh. These fantasies of Trump getting elected are kinda funny.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#104464: Nov 3rd 2015 at 1:02:07 PM

[up]X3 "Goes"? *raises eyebrows*

edited 3rd Nov '15 1:02:19 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#104465: Nov 3rd 2015 at 1:02:54 PM

@Silasw: Congress is not batshit. Some parts of it are, but they only control enough votes at the moment to obstruct governance, not get their way in all things.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#104466: Nov 3rd 2015 at 1:33:00 PM

The last attempt at such a Congressional coup was against Andrew Johnson, who had intentionally been picked as a cross-party VP by Lincoln. And even they had the courtesy to start by forcing unconstitutional laws on the guy to induce him to break them. A 2/3 majority in both houses of Congress is completely unchecked (they can replace the Supreme Court, too) - that's why our system was set up so that it doesn't happen.

Now, ignoring the prospect of Nancy Pelosi as President, I'm in favor of O'Malley as veep, whichever of Clinton or Sanders wins. He's clearly going nowhere in this election, but in 2024, the loser of Sanders and Clinton will probably be too old to run, and as I've said before, the Democrats have a serious leadership deficit in the top ranks. O'Malley would be a good candidate to groom for the next shot.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#104468: Nov 3rd 2015 at 1:58:15 PM

Of course, one quandary overlooked by the whole Billary ticket - if Hillary got to the point that she couldn't act as President (whether ailment or death), would Bill really be in a good state of mind to hold the office?

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#104469: Nov 3rd 2015 at 2:22:22 PM

This title, man...

One of the themes on the library catalog right now is "Get to know the candidates", and most of the big names have their own books.

Some of those guys are already knocked out, but hey, the idea of being a politician is to put your influence into the world, even if you don't get elected.

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#104470: Nov 3rd 2015 at 3:05:06 PM

It's already been pointed out that Carson going on a book tour was basically the same thing as remaining on the campaign. Writing books is like having a campaign that never stops, because those are going to stay out there for a good long while. Actually, seems like book writing is becoming a standard thing for politicians.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#104471: Nov 3rd 2015 at 3:34:06 PM

There's a joke that given how clearly Barry has run out of fucks to give his post-presidency book is going to be pretty scathing.

edited 3rd Nov '15 3:34:27 PM by Deadbeatloser22

"Yup. That tasted purple."
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#104472: Nov 3rd 2015 at 5:00:05 PM

A guy named Castro, being groomed for POTUS? Oh, my...

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#104473: Nov 3rd 2015 at 5:07:28 PM

Hey, that's what they said about the guy whose middle name was Hussein.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#104474: Nov 3rd 2015 at 5:12:20 PM

Better get used to Castro, it is a hella common surname for Latin and South Americans.

Inter arma enim silent leges
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#104475: Nov 3rd 2015 at 5:24:42 PM

Fun fact, Castros refer to themselves individually as 'Castro', call each other 'Castras', and collectively refer to themselves as 'Castramos'. This helps make it less confusing when the One-Steve Limit is broken.

edited 3rd Nov '15 5:27:13 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Total posts: 417,856
Top