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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#104226: Nov 1st 2015 at 8:08:04 AM

Yeah-I mean, what you're complaining about is a concern OTHER countries might legitimately have, but one of the small benefits of being a Superpower is that your political corruption is all locally grown, here in the US of A.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#104227: Nov 1st 2015 at 11:28:48 AM

I'm not even sure what effect superpacs would even have on foreign donations; I'm pretty sure none. The thing about superpacs is that they are super local and funded by the rich in this country.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#104228: Nov 1st 2015 at 11:34:12 AM

Jack we've been over this. China has absolutely no control or power over the United States in any way, shape, or form

Their whole nation is practically built to serve us and the West. We own their economy.

Oh really when?
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#104229: Nov 1st 2015 at 11:40:50 AM

[up]You might want to redact that last bit cause the Chinese really are working to not become like that.

Inter arma enim silent leges
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#104230: Nov 1st 2015 at 11:44:26 AM

[up]Well, yeah. It's a thing, you know, that people want to be sovereign and stuff.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#104231: Nov 1st 2015 at 11:46:57 AM

The EU and America recieve over 60% of china's exports, so. ..

I'm baaaaaaack
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#104232: Nov 1st 2015 at 11:51:33 AM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#104233: Nov 1st 2015 at 12:03:45 PM

[up]Uncalled for, off topic, and making the discussion about a user rather than his poorly considered arguments. Let's not reduce ourselves to accusing each other of going out to hurt groups of people, even jokingly.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#104234: Nov 1st 2015 at 12:04:21 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#104235: Nov 1st 2015 at 12:12:13 PM

I'd like to remind everyone that this topic is not about shaming people for their political beliefs. Well, people who participate in it, anyway.

edited 1st Nov '15 12:12:27 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SKJAM Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#104236: Nov 1st 2015 at 2:06:46 PM

There's a competitive House seat vacancy in Minnesota (just south of the Twin Cities) and the candidates have already spent $2 million on their campaigns. (Minnesota is a blue state, but the southern suburbs are somewhat conservative due to affluent white flight back in the day.) http://tinyurl.com/ogztpaf

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#104237: Nov 1st 2015 at 3:15:37 PM

I question how much these big political ad campaigns actually affect anything. You need a certain amount of advertising to get your name out there and let people know what your positions are, but once that's accomplished, I'm not sure how more advertising is gonna sway people to your side.

What I was taught is that there are two kinds of ads: informative and perusasive. Informative ads let you know that a product exists, what it can do, where you can find it, and how much it'll cost. Persuasive ads, while they may contain some information, most focus on convincing you to buy this particular product instead of a competing brand.

Perusasive ads work best when there's little objective difference between different brands of the same product. Think of Coke vs. Pepsi. In terms of flavor, price, and nutritional content, they're virtually identical. So when someone's out shopping for a soft drink, they have no rational reason for picking Coke over Pepsi or Pepsi over Coke; that decision is made based (essentially) on a whim. And its that sort of whim that persuasive ads are good at shifting in the direction that the advertisers want.

But politicians aren't like Coke and Pepsi; there are very real and substantive differences between political candidates. Maybe in a primary race candidates' platforms could be similar enough that voters see little difference between them. But when it comes to the big Democrat vs. Republican showdown, trying to make someone change who they're voting for is like trying to convince someone who lives in an apartment to buy a lawn mower: no matter how slick the ad campaign is, they're just not in the market for what you're selling.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#104238: Nov 1st 2015 at 3:21:08 PM

Using the Coke vs Pepsi argument, it's a Prisoner's Dilemma. Both would be better off if neither advertised. If one advertises, the other loses. If they both do, they both lose. Same for politics I suppose. Opening the flood gates on campaign dollars does nothing but make things more expensive.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#104239: Nov 1st 2015 at 3:21:28 PM

These days, asking me to choose between Republicans and Democrats is like asking me whether I'd rather contract cancer or AIDS. And unfortunately, no third-party candidate has a snowball's chance in Hell...

Just for the record, I'm registered Non-Partisan/No Affiliation.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#104240: Nov 1st 2015 at 3:21:39 PM

Former Senator Fred Thompson has passed away at 77.

edited 1st Nov '15 3:21:57 PM by tclittle

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#104241: Nov 1st 2015 at 3:29:38 PM

[up][up] I'd hardly say the difference between Trump and Sanders (or even Clinton) is so little, it's only so little for people already in a comfortable place who don't need Ombamcare, don't need welfare, don't need reproductive rights, don't need minority rights, and don't need workers rights.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#104242: Nov 1st 2015 at 3:33:15 PM

[up]He could be arguing that both sides are too extreme.

Ironically, "both sides are too similar" and "both sides are too radically different" are both equally common complaints about the two party system.

Leviticus 19:34
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#104243: Nov 1st 2015 at 3:37:22 PM

The AIDS-Cancer comparison clearly indicates that he thinks I they'll both as horrible as each other, which is something I'm sure the people in this is thread who like the things sited would disagree on.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#104244: Nov 1st 2015 at 3:44:18 PM

Too extreme? Sanders is fairly moderate by European standards [nja]

edited 1st Nov '15 3:44:42 PM by Xopher001

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#104245: Nov 1st 2015 at 3:46:07 PM

[up]The US is on the North American continent, however.

Leviticus 19:34
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#104246: Nov 1st 2015 at 3:46:51 PM

IMO, the major political parties have become so polarized and so dead-set against each other, there seem to be no moderates anymore, and no room for compromise. Whenever the balance of power shifts from one party to the other, they spend the next year or so trying to undo everything the previous administration did.

You may disagree with me all you like. I simply don't see any party that I'd bother joining. And by the way, I'm only referring to parties, not individual candidates.

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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#104247: Nov 1st 2015 at 3:51:15 PM

Have you got a political fallacy bingo card or something? Because you've managed both "they're the same and both horrible" and "they're just mirror images of each other that want to do political partisan things and undo what the other did".

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#104248: Nov 1st 2015 at 4:00:09 PM

[up] Hey, I'd love for you to prove me wrong. But can you do that? I mean, with verifiable facts and a well-reasoned argument, rather than just nay-saying my views? I admit that I'm rather ignorant about politics in general, but I simply can't get too deeply into the subject without becoming totally disgusted and suddenly feeling the need for a shower.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
ILoveDogs Since: May, 2010
#104249: Nov 1st 2015 at 4:03:47 PM

I can sympathize, but in that case perhaps a politics thread isn't quite your tempo.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#104250: Nov 1st 2015 at 4:06:27 PM

Although he likes to call himself a Democratic Socialist, I'm not even sure that Sanders is that left wing by American standards (I mean it really depends on who you consider Moderate).

I'm trying to think of a good way to put this, but I'd also say that besides his being more pro-gun than most Democrats, Sanders also kind of positions himself generally as appealing to working class (read white) voters. I mean I'm not saying that he's racist (and in fact he supports what I guess I'd call "racial justice" policies, but it's not a coincidence that Black Lives Matter targeted him, and to some degree, I think he is courting the votes of voters who are racist.


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