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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#104051: Oct 28th 2015 at 9:58:54 PM

[up]Where do you live that that kind of fraud isn't prosecuted?

Edit: Freaking pagetopper.

edited 28th Oct '15 9:59:09 PM by AceofSpades

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#104052: Oct 28th 2015 at 10:12:26 PM

[up] Philippines. It's illegal of course, but good luck trying to even figure out who did it.

One thing good to say about Philippines legal system - it over-prepares us for the US legal system.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#104053: Oct 28th 2015 at 10:34:17 PM

The gerrymandered districts might be something to kick up a fuss about soon. There's been some movement in the last decade toward redistricting commissions in lieu of letting the legislature draw their own map, even in the more gerrymandered areas. Think it can be made a federal issue, something about a conflict of interest?

[down]Hell yes.

edited 28th Oct '15 10:37:22 PM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#104054: Oct 28th 2015 at 10:34:33 PM

Tomu - it is not the job of poor disenfranchised Americans to serve as the PR effort for convincing the idle to do their duty as citizens. It is as valid to say the idle need to get over themselves at the offense as it is to say the disenfranchised need to calm down, and the reaction of the disenfranchised to lose patience is no less natural a reaction than that of the idle to become defensive.

But if you want a reason to vote, here's one: draining GOP coffers. In the era of Citizens United, the GOP is going to drop huge amounts of money on every election it can afford to. But as Sheldon Adelson's horrible, terrible, no good, very bad night in November 2012 demonstrated, it's possible for wealthy conservative backers to waste lots of money and get nothing to show for it - especially if Democrats use the right strategies (the Obama campaign relying on much cheaper TV advertising and web advertising than the ads the GOP purchased). This will only be amplified by the amount of affinity fraud in the GOP reality bubble, wherein a lot of their "campaign consultants" are complete hucksters looking to cash in with no ability to actually help them win elections.

So the strategy the Dems should and probably will apply - particularly once they turf the contemptibly useless Debbie Wasserman Schultz and bring back Howard Dean's 50 state strategy - will be to nationalize every race, attack every district they can, and try to make the election as expensive as possible for their opponents. Which means that you accept the floodgates of cash are open, and you need to direct them away from the strategically important swing districts and into districts where they get less bang for their buck. And that means fooling the GOP into spending on gerrymandered districts. If all the apathetic citizens voted in a given gerrymandered district, someone's going to notice "Hey, we only won by 20 percentage points, not 30!" If that someone is a Tea Party challenger to a GOP incumbent congresscritter, they can dial up the crazy, run a primary challenge next year, and find a conservative sugar daddy willing to fund it. Boom, those are millions of dollars going to a right-wing internal catfight that aren't going to TV ads in Ohio. Multiply by all the gerrymandered districts in the country where this strategy will work and that's a lot of money they can't spend where it's needed - and by statistics, a few of them might flip, which will provoke a bigger reaction and draw even more money away from the swing states.

So there's your reason. You're not throwing away your vote - you're throwing away opposition money. When you walk into the polls, imagine yourself taking a big wad of bills out of Charles Koch's wallet and burning them. Doesn't that motivate you?

edited 28th Oct '15 10:35:37 PM by RadicalTaoist

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#104055: Oct 29th 2015 at 2:47:53 AM

[up]Wow. That's the best response to "my vote doesn't matter" I have ever seen.[awesome]

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#104056: Oct 29th 2015 at 6:16:03 AM

Why is that you guys like to slap everyone with the same label?

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#104057: Oct 29th 2015 at 6:22:16 AM

Such as?

Oh really when?
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#104058: Oct 29th 2015 at 6:46:28 AM

Regarding the refusal to vote discussion:

What I think has to be mentioned is that without action, rationally coming to the "right" decision is just so much intellectual masturbation, and patting oneself on the back for that is so much vanity. Yay, I took the time to keep up with the news, posted on forums online about the issues, then did absolutely nothing, not even the minimum bare bones step to try to do anything about getting those conclusions made. But I did spend the time rationally coming to a conclusion, (even though by refusing to act I'm assuring that my conclusion has a lower chance of ever coming true) so go me!

Honestly, I have a better opinion of the people who don't vote as a result of apathy, and would rather just avoid the process altogether. Actually paying attention to politics and the news and then doing nothing about it is basically political hipsterism.

edited 29th Oct '15 6:47:43 AM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#104060: Oct 29th 2015 at 7:34:36 AM

Paul Ryan is now speaker of the House.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#104061: Oct 29th 2015 at 7:46:53 AM

I never claimed not to be a political hipster :P

I am a hipster otaku after all.

Anyway, all I was really saying is, yes: make that "you're draining the enemy's coffers!" argument. I already said I personally am going to try and vote (if anyone had payed attention), and that it's just an issue due to the voter ID laws and general difficulty of registration. My concern has always been that I hate bad arguments, and was opposing said bad arguments.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#104062: Oct 29th 2015 at 7:47:48 AM

There was another republican debate? Dang. Doesnt seem like anything too insane.

You know I am going to take advantage of the fact I do not live in the U.S or have much reason for caring about it to irrespectfully drop in uninvited to the conversation of "GO VOTE" just to rather very rudely say the following:

Yes, maybe the argument others are saying boils down to "Listen, fucker, we need your help and just to hear you say you are considering not to vote infuriates me" might not be the most polite way of asking for help.

But neither is "Waaah! You are being mean! Dont you know it is HOPELESS?" an argument that is empathic at all. So. You know. Weird as it may sound the "Vote, fucker" argument out of anger seems a lot more appropriate and fitting both emotionally and rationally than "I need cuddles and maybe diaper changes to maybe vote"

edited 29th Oct '15 7:56:38 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#104063: Oct 29th 2015 at 7:52:37 AM

I do wonder to what degree writing politicians does something.

Personal story.

I read an editorial about a man who was about to be executed in two weeks for a crime that there's zero physical evidence of him committing, and that he was coerced into confessing for. And also, the person who committed the actual crime later said he was pressured into falsely naming this man as an accomplice. Pissed off at yet another innocent person being sentenced to death because some dumbass wanted to close a case quickly, I decided to rant about it in two threads, and encourage people to call in and write in to the governor's office and state their case about this innocent man being executed, and demand that the case be re-examined.

There's no indication that anyone did.

So I remembered something else; a short time back, I donated to a You Tube mini-celebrity of sorts, to help pay for a new laptop after his previous one was fried. In exchange, he contacted me and asked what kind of video he'd like me to make for him. Seeing my opportunity to get a cause out there, I told him about the innocent man who was about to be executed. The You Tube mini-celeb looked into the facts he could find, got as pissed off about it as I was (his mom even told him that it wasn't worth dealing with; "How do you even know he's innocent?" she actually said), and decided to make the video.

Multiple people commented on the video and said they were going to call and/or write in, and I also wrote to The Innocence Project and another group. (I didn't hear back from anyone)

A couple days later, someone pointed to an article saying that the execution was halted, and the governor had changed the man's sentence to life in prison instead of death. Of course the governor just had to say "I'm convinced he's still guilty", but he provided no reason for calling off the execution. I guess he just couldn't admit that maybe innocent people end up on death row sometimes.

So, was this the result of all of us calling and writing in and telling them to call off the execution of an innocent man? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not, but I will say that it's better to try than not to try, if you want anything to get done.

edited 29th Oct '15 8:09:29 AM by BonsaiForest

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#104064: Oct 29th 2015 at 8:18:38 AM

So having read through that GOP debate, a recurring theme towards the end was a desire to raise the retirement age. Forgive me if I'm not thrilled with the idea of working until I'm 90 before I can start collecting anything.

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#104065: Oct 29th 2015 at 8:24:09 AM

That's something I've been thinking about actually. As we live longer and longer, we may need the retirement age to go up. Japan is having a problem with their aging population, and China is freaking out about same. A lot of people not working is a lot of money being spent to take care of them, whether they don't work because they can't, because no-one will hire them due to prejudice, or because they don't want to - the results are still the same.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#104066: Oct 29th 2015 at 8:29:10 AM

Man, they were not kind to Trump over his wall were they?

Oh really when?
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#104067: Oct 29th 2015 at 8:40:34 AM

Haha. Reading a bit of that transcript...

Seriously though. Can Carson do math?

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#104068: Oct 29th 2015 at 8:47:39 AM

Life expectancy is rising far more on the top income levels than on the lower income levels. For a lot of us, it's mostly just declining infant mortality rates.

[up] Are you saying he cheated his way through med school?

Actually, I take that back. If I recall, the idea is "if you're good at math, engineering. If not, chemistry -> med school."

edited 29th Oct '15 8:49:07 AM by TheyCallMeTomu

Know-age Since: May, 2010
#104069: Oct 29th 2015 at 8:49:12 AM

He's an old man who's been through chemotherapy, probably not as sharp as he used to be.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#104071: Oct 29th 2015 at 8:49:49 AM

Nah, he's just in that special reality proof bubble is all.

Oh really when?
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#104072: Oct 29th 2015 at 8:55:20 AM

What was that website that did the factchecking stuff of what candidates said onthe debates?

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#104073: Oct 29th 2015 at 9:05:30 AM

[up] I don't know if this is the specific site you're referring to, but the Washington Post did a fact-checking article on last night's debate.

LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#104074: Oct 29th 2015 at 9:11:13 AM

I went on Politifact. Lots of red lights there.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#104075: Oct 29th 2015 at 9:12:02 AM

Raising the retirement age for Social Security and/or Medicare benefits won't provide any savings at all; the opposite, in fact. Here's why.

  1. Life expectancy is only increasing for the very well-off: those who don't need Social Security and Medicare to maintain their quality of life in retirement. Raising the eligibility age would mainly increase the number of poor people dying before they can collect benefits.
  2. In many cases, especially involuntary retirement and/or disability, people collecting benefits under these programs use them as their primary source of income. This increases their ability to consume, which increases total spending in the economy and thus tax revenue. The overall economic multiplier is significant, especially in the bracket that is most in need of benefits.
  3. The majority of Medicare costs are incurred in the last year of a recipient's life; making otherwise healthy people wait longer to enroll won't save any appreciable amount of money.

Edit: In regards to fact-checking, one might as well assume that nothing of substantial truth was said at the Republican debate, except when they (a) are using real facts to attack each others' positions, (b) are John Kasich.

edited 29th Oct '15 9:19:34 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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