TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#103426: Oct 14th 2015 at 1:25:52 PM

They said we'd never have peace in Northern Ireland, they said the Berlin Wall would never come down, they said Apartheid would never end, they said we'd never put a man on the moon, they said the British would never leave India peacefully, they said the US would never elect a black president. We've done the impossible before and we can do it again.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#103427: Oct 14th 2015 at 1:30:21 PM

Because I didn't catch it initially, I'll state it here:

Islamists might hate Russia, but thats also more to do with other issues than Afghanistan. And that still has nothing to do with my statement about Arabs, since most of the Islamists that hate Russia are Chechen.

Anyway, back to our regular discussion.

Also, Fighteer, I'm not saying we ignore the home front. But you can't do that to the exclusion of whats going on outside. Because, as Europe is seeing, what goes on there will eventually hit us here, oceans be damned. And I am trying to advocate a useful middle eastern policy. Emphasis on useful.

As for Putin, you're letting the media's sensationalism get to you. Just because he's taking Ukraine doesn't mean the EU/NATO is under any real threat or are somehow unprepared to take care of them.

[up][awesome] Speak it man, speak it.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#103428: Oct 14th 2015 at 1:32:58 PM

Those things also happened after decades of work. We only have a president for eight years. Even if the US had someone committed to doing these things ae'd need mutiple presidents willing to carry on where the last one left off.

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#103429: Oct 14th 2015 at 1:35:06 PM

[up]You are correct.

But thats where multilateralism comes in to help that out, since the coalition would carry on the momentum.

Also, it's not impossible to have a dedicated guy. Just give him or her a term that lasts longer than a president's and leave it open for reappointment if necessary.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#103430: Oct 14th 2015 at 1:37:55 PM

This is still ignoring the fact that a democratic candidate that wanted to do this would find the task impossible. Even if they did the things they're suggesting the Republicans would invent a reason to object to their plan and would derail it at every opportunity.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#103431: Oct 14th 2015 at 1:38:02 PM

Given how polarized the US is right now I dunno if I'd trust us to undertake any long term efforts. If a Republican wins they'd go out of their way to reverse any and all progress made. Both domestic and abroad.

Oh really when?
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#103432: Oct 14th 2015 at 1:39:19 PM

Also true, but a different problem. My only position thus far is that Obama's current policy is relatively useless in terms of actually getting anything done vis a vis Syria and that a stronger and SMARTER solution is required.

That partisan bullshit will get in the way is a huge problem, but one thats true for ANY policy.

EDIT- The more I think about it, the more I believe Boehner's timing was genius.

edited 14th Oct '15 1:40:18 PM by FFShinra

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#103433: Oct 14th 2015 at 1:40:28 PM

So we get that. The US remains in Bosnia today, you get the ball rolling and it may well sustain itself. Yes we have to get it started, we have to sustain it from administration to administration, I never said it would be easy, but I'd be bloody worth it come the end.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#103434: Oct 14th 2015 at 1:51:59 PM

I just saw a window sticker for this year's Texas Prop 6 and it made me realize I didn't know the others.

  • Prop 1
    • Ups the Homestead Tax Exemption for school district property from $15,000 to $25,000
  • Prop 2
    • Removes tax from property for spouses of completely disabled veterans.
  • Prop 3
    • Certain statewide elected offices no longer have to reside in Austin during their term.
  • Prop 4
    • Professional sport team charities can preform charitable raffles.
  • Prop 5
    • Counties with 7,500 people or less are authorized to preform private road maintenance.
  • Prop 6
    • Adds the right to hunt, fish, and harvest wildlife to the Constitution.
  • Prop 7
    • Allocates a portion of funds from sales and use tax revenue to the highway fund through 2032.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#103435: Oct 14th 2015 at 1:56:04 PM

Does that prop 6 include protected and endangered wildlife? If so then ugh.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#103436: Oct 14th 2015 at 1:57:24 PM

[up]

(a) The people have the right to hunt, fish, and harvest wildlife, including by the use of traditional methods, subject to laws or regulations to conserve and manage wildlife and preserve the future of hunting and fishing.
(b) Hunting and fishing are preferred methods of managing and controlling wildlife.
(c) This section does not affect any provision of law relating to trespass, property rights, or eminent domain.
(d) This section does not affect the power of the legislature to authorize a municipality to regulate the discharge of a weapon in a populated area in the interest of public safety.[4]

edited 14th Oct '15 1:57:47 PM by tclittle

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#103437: Oct 14th 2015 at 1:58:19 PM

@ tclittle: I'll suspend judgement on 6, but I can't see a problem with the other Propositions.

Keep Rolling On
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#103438: Oct 14th 2015 at 1:58:20 PM

As for Putin, you're letting the media's sensationalism get to you. Just because he's taking Ukraine doesn't mean the EU/NATO is under any real threat or are somehow unprepared to take care of them.
Er, okay. How does this jibe with the assertion that we must stop Putin lest he go nuts everywhere? Which is it?

Nobody playing the "Obama is weak" meme has presented any credible and non-contradictory rationale for it.

edited 14th Oct '15 1:59:01 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#103439: Oct 14th 2015 at 1:59:12 PM

You're confusing me for Jack I think, because I don't advocate going toe to toe with Putin.

EDIT- And Obama is fine with non-crisis situations. I love what he did with Cuba and am an optimist with what he did with Iran. But in crisis situations, I think he is weak because he is overly cautious or is too quick to get out.

edited 14th Oct '15 2:01:32 PM by FFShinra

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#103440: Oct 14th 2015 at 2:00:46 PM

Okay, but isn't "Putin will take over the Middle-East if we leave" one of the main justifications for continued intervention? If the EU can handle him, this is hard to swallow.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#103441: Oct 14th 2015 at 2:02:46 PM

Not my justification. Putin will likely have his ally no matter what we do. My justification is on moral grounds. Refugees, death and destruction over a very long period of time, etc.

edited 14th Oct '15 2:03:07 PM by FFShinra

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#103442: Oct 14th 2015 at 2:04:05 PM

I heard Obama doesn't even lift.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#103443: Oct 14th 2015 at 2:04:20 PM

[up][up]But that applies all over the place. Africa, the Middle-East, parts of Asia, South America. How do we pick and choose?

The primary justification seems to be that we helped make that mess, but... hello, Africa?

edited 14th Oct '15 2:04:48 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#103444: Oct 14th 2015 at 2:04:36 PM

Hardly, Putin couldn't take over eastern Ukraine fully, the Middle East would be safe from him.

But we can't leave the job to him either, because he doesn't care at all about helping the people of the region.

Middle East is a bigger mess, and one that the US has more responsibility for. Though some sensible action in central and South America would be great, we just happened to be talking about the Middle East.

edited 14th Oct '15 2:06:15 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#103445: Oct 14th 2015 at 2:05:44 PM

Oh ok, I don't really see too much wrong with it then at first glance.

People are getting shot by toddlers on a weekly basis this year

So apparently there have been 43 shootings by toddlers this year, 13 of them fatal.

Man, just requiring gun safety lessons and gun storage devices for guns would save so many lives.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#103446: Oct 14th 2015 at 2:06:10 PM

Nah Putin could have Kiev within the day if he so felt like it.

Just with the introduction of Russian weaponry he's brought Ukraine to it's knees.

He just doesn't want Ukraine. He's already got his target; Crimea.

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#103447: Oct 14th 2015 at 2:06:28 PM

[up][up]"Guns don't kill people, toddlers with stupid parents kill people."

[up] Get your stories straight. Is Putin terrifyingly competent and calculating, backed by a superpower-level military arsenal, or is he clinging desperately to power atop a military and economic house of cards?

edited 14th Oct '15 2:07:41 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#103448: Oct 14th 2015 at 2:06:57 PM

I've said it here several pages ago: It's like porn, you know it when you see it.

More specifically, context is everything. A case like Ukraine, not something we can do about because we're under no liability, the conflict is low key, and the consequences of intervening hurt us a lot more elsewher. A case like Libya, go in, take out the G-man, then help the very grateful new government get back on its feet.

Even in cases that we decide to intervene, the method is also context-specific.

EDIT- [nja] is strong today.

EDIT 2 -

[up]Neither. Russia is not at eithe extreme. They are a great power, not a superpower, nor a backwater.

edited 14th Oct '15 2:08:53 PM by FFShinra

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#103449: Oct 14th 2015 at 2:08:50 PM

Have in the same way the US had Bagdad, it wouldn't last, he wouldn't be able to sustain a full occupation. You honestly think if he could have easily just rolled into Kiev and put his friend back in power, he wouldn't have?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#103450: Oct 14th 2015 at 2:09:09 PM

[up][up][up]He can be both. He's sitting on a superpower grade arsenal but his domestic power is dependent on maintaining the idea that Russia is under siege.

edited 14th Oct '15 2:09:20 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?

Total posts: 417,856
Top