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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#103201: Oct 13th 2015 at 11:08:24 AM

[up][up] Well, it would be nice if there is an actual, serviceable warplane at the end of this black hole of cash.

edited 13th Oct '15 11:08:32 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#103202: Oct 13th 2015 at 11:11:10 AM

[up] The end of it is probably 40-odd, probably more, years away.

Keep Rolling On
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#103203: Oct 13th 2015 at 11:23:05 AM

[up][up]On the other hand, perhaps it would be better not to succumb to Sunk Cost Fallacy and give up on a project that's not delivering on what was offered.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#103204: Oct 13th 2015 at 11:42:52 AM

Less Sunk Cost Fallacy and more we are straight up out of time to replace our old planes.

They're literally falling apart at the seams and we need a new craft yesterday.

Unfortunately the F-35 is utter shit and we have nothing else to replace it and no time to bring up a new design from scratch.

edited 13th Oct '15 11:43:53 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#103205: Oct 13th 2015 at 11:46:04 AM

Last I heard, the Eurofighter project was going much better. Let's buy it instead.

edited 13th Oct '15 11:46:23 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#103206: Oct 13th 2015 at 11:48:19 AM

[up]But it's not murkan!

I'd kinda love to see a MMRCA-style tender for the next American fighter jet. Would amuse.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#103207: Oct 13th 2015 at 12:06:11 PM

[up] The French are smug enough as it is,due to being right about Iraq, picking up all of our arms contracts, and just because their the French. Give them anymore reason to feel superior and they will burst like a smug French Ballon.

Edit: Oh and none of those fighters have stealth, which is the Air force's latest obsession.

edited 13th Oct '15 12:12:01 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#103208: Oct 13th 2015 at 12:19:24 PM

"Stealth' is a misnomer, but having a low radar cross section makes so many missions above enemy territory safer as you gotta screw up and get too close to radar towers to be targeted by homing missiles.

Punch a small hole in their network and you are free to pwn, without that you would have to take down all radar towers in a hundred miles. Ubisoft would hate you for it.

However from my understanding the F-35's 'stealth' is a kinda a fail too.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#103209: Oct 13th 2015 at 12:23:58 PM

[up] Everything about that plain is a fail. It is the fucking Jowan of aviation!!

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#103210: Oct 13th 2015 at 12:28:28 PM

But it's not murkan!
You mean, like the tank guns the US military uses?

edited 13th Oct '15 12:29:44 PM by DrunkenNordmann

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#103211: Oct 13th 2015 at 12:30:42 PM

But it's not murkan!

Neither is a fair proportion of the F-35.

[up] Or the gun it replaced?

Keep Rolling On
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#103212: Oct 13th 2015 at 12:31:59 PM

Real 'merican things are made in china

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#103213: Oct 13th 2015 at 12:33:56 PM

I should have potholed Sarcasm Mode, but I thought I was being obvious.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#103214: Oct 13th 2015 at 12:37:16 PM

[up] I know that you were being sarcastic - but I'm still allowed to mock the attitude that we know actually exists.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#103215: Oct 13th 2015 at 12:42:24 PM

Traditionally the US never really left the production of critical aircraft to foreign producers due to security reasons.

So unless it is a low priority aircraft like cargo ships and COIN aircraft, the US isn't going to rely on foreign units. It isn't a bad thing though.

For the F-35 the first iterations were doing poorly because they were prototypes, the current ones are doing as well as they should. It is administrative bickering that is delaying the project, including horsing around with making the software because the companies responsible were doing nothing until they were outright called out for being woefully behind schedule.

Even the F-16 had most of the criticism leveled against the F-35, sans the ridiculous procurement cost, specially needing to be flown by software control rather than the old analog controls.

Also a lot of reports over the F-35 poor performance were insanely overblown.

edited 13th Oct '15 12:44:50 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#103216: Oct 13th 2015 at 12:48:22 PM

[up]X3 I don't think anyone is taking it as a serious argument you're making, but it is an argument that would be made by some.

edited 13th Oct '15 12:49:11 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#103217: Oct 13th 2015 at 12:53:13 PM

Real 'Merican stuff would be made in China. By Mexican immigrants. In India.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#103218: Oct 13th 2015 at 1:05:09 PM

@Silas and Nordmann - Fair nuff.

[up]The meals they eat must be phenomenal.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#103219: Oct 13th 2015 at 1:06:24 PM

French fries, from belgium, of course.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#103220: Oct 13th 2015 at 1:26:50 PM

No you fool, the Mexican immigrants were themselves made in India.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#103221: Oct 13th 2015 at 1:31:24 PM

Wouldn't that make them Indian immigrants?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#103222: Oct 13th 2015 at 1:32:48 PM

Folks, I know that levity can help us cope with serious topics, but when taken too far it causes people to lose track of the topic being discussed. Thanks for your understanding.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#103223: Oct 13th 2015 at 1:33:40 PM

You can be conceived somewhere that you're not born.

Edit: Just saw the mod post, give me a sec.

Edit 2: So, to do as Fighter has instructed. The F-35, I believe one of the big boondoggle things has been argued to be the extent of stealth that has gone into it. So while some basic stealth might be a good idea, it's not worth shilling out to make everything fully stealth, just make a specific stealth plane and have that for stealth missions.

edited 13th Oct '15 1:36:05 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#103224: Oct 13th 2015 at 2:13:51 PM

Stealth is a ridiculously important concern in fighter tech. Since guided missiles have become the dominant form of anti-air weaponry, and advanced to the point where they can reliably hit targets in any direction, in any weather, at extremely long ranges, the best defense against them is simply not being targeted in the first place. Stealth planes are not Invisibility Cloak level of "completely undetectable to sensors", but by reducing the radar and infrared cross-section, they become harder to spot, harder to identify, and harder to target. Given that combat aircraft are basically playing Rocket Tag, that's hugely important.

Stealth features are the primary reason why we need brand-new plane designs rather than updating existing designs with new technology. Stealth it's something that can be back-fitted into an older airframe. It needs to be a design consideration from the beginning. The shape of the fuselage, the materials used in construction, the placement of the engines, all of that goes into making a plane stealthy. You can't just add a "stealth coating" to an existing plane and call it a day.

edited 13th Oct '15 2:14:20 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#103225: Oct 13th 2015 at 2:15:38 PM

Stealth is becoming less and less useful though.

The Russians already have ground based radars that are getting better and better at seeing stealthed craft.

Soon the drawbacks to having a stealthy designed are going to outweigh the benefits.

Oh really when?

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