TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#103001: Oct 9th 2015 at 4:18:21 PM

Mass killers often learn from what previous mass killers have done, according to this article.

You know, back when I was going through my conspiracy nut anti-government phase, I used to see all these sites that claimed that school shootings and the like were somehow "sparked" by the government, created to try to pass gun control laws.

I'm willing to bet that the wacko sites are saying that now.

But I for one am wondering why the US seems to be the only country with this problem. I'm ready for some damn gun control myself.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#103002: Oct 9th 2015 at 4:24:05 PM

Gotta beat the high score.

We did have a spree killer shooting up an elementary school which may or may not be inspired by US spree killers.

There is one guy dead in Arizona after an armed confrontation.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#103004: Oct 9th 2015 at 5:04:46 PM

So who else is stoked for Tuesday night? http://tinyurl.com/pce9p4g

Edit: Fixed it to be tiny. tongue

edited 9th Oct '15 5:05:26 PM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#103006: Oct 9th 2015 at 7:14:28 PM

I just checked my former favorite conspiracy site to see what they're making of the things going on in the world today.

It's a site that used to be uber-left during the Bush administration, and is now uber-right, and they posted this.

I think the picture says all that needs to be said. Suffice to say, I'm glad I'm out of that phase.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#103007: Oct 9th 2015 at 8:35:28 PM

[up]

Something I've observed about politics is that, which party is pro-establishment or anti-establishment keeps changing hands. One decade you have anarcho-communists declaring the left as anti-establishment, the other you have anarcho-capitalists declaring the right as anti-establishment.

Leviticus 19:34
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#103009: Oct 9th 2015 at 8:43:57 PM

It's interesting how civil the Democratic campaign has been so far. Sanders and Clinton are both content to present their ideas and visions, avoid mudslinging, and treat each other as Worthy Opponents. I wonder how long that'll last.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#103010: Oct 9th 2015 at 10:11:39 PM

[up]As long as they have the Republican bloodbath to look at, they can probably both agree to not do that. The mess is unbelievable: nobody sane wants to drag that kind of thing into the house. tongue

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#103011: Oct 9th 2015 at 11:15:35 PM

[up][up][up]Considering that the mentally unstable people who go on killing sprees subscribe to one type of conspiracy or another, that joke might not be that off.

Inter arma enim silent leges
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#103012: Oct 9th 2015 at 11:17:02 PM

It's probably deliberate on both their parts so as to look like the sane adults in the room. With the mess that the Republican primary has turned into, they can use this time to contrast their own behavior later on when one of them is facing off with the Republican candidate.

Plus, trying to out-mudsling the mudslingers is a fight you lose just by entering.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#103013: Oct 9th 2015 at 11:18:56 PM

While we are at it, let us add hiroshima, nagasaki, and why not? The 1930 depression.
Er, why would we Americans want to have stopped Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Or is the argument that the Japanese could have stopped the bombing if they had more guns?
side conversations about exotic lingerie
We need a topic for that, so we can just send Aszur there whenever he starts posting in another thread.
And it's a pretty great idea.
Sorry Hillary, that means it's doomed to failure.
the cartoonish intentions of the shootings actually hurt the reputation of gun owners because it paints us as a children who use killing instruments to vent our frustrations on a whim.
Like blowing away an 8 year old over an argument about a puppy?
and the Democrats are Passing The Popcorn.
Is there a requirement that the Speaker be a member of the majority party? Because it would be hilarious if the Dems nominated one of their own, just because.
...not even funny, Bonsai.
I dunno, I chuckled.
Including the US Military ...and nothing pisses off a member of the Military more than not getting paid..
Last shutdown, Navy Federal Credit Union promised to cover members' paychecks for two months. Otherwise I guarantee you'd have had numerically-small-but-widespread revolt among servicemembers. There were a lot of people of the opinion of, "If they're not paying me, I'm not showing up. It's in my fucking contract."
nobody is challenging [Bernie's] right to seek the Democratic Party's nomination for President.
Because we like him. He's doing good things for the party, as seen by the massive support he's drummed up.
Gotta beat the high score.
'Got me a score of 12.'
Sanders and Clinton are both content to present their ideas and visions, avoid mudslinging, and treat each other as Worthy Opponents. I wonder how long that'll last.
I think it will continue to last for a while, at least up until Bernie takes a commanding lead. I think that if Hillary slides into a definite second-place, she'll turn a little more vicious (though not to Republican levels) to try and claw back to at least even if not the lead. I don't think Bernie will respond in kind unless it goes on for a while, though I do expect "unaffiliated" super-PACs to start going after both of them regardless of what the candidates themselves want.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#103014: Oct 10th 2015 at 12:14:01 AM

The incident marked the third shooting on or near the campus in less than a week, though it's unclear whether the shootings were related.

I'm pretty much anti-gun ownership, but since my country is also fucked up with regards to this matter - I'm just too tired to add to the debate about it.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#103015: Oct 10th 2015 at 12:41:23 AM

AFAIK, Sanders doesn't have an "unaffiliated" super-PAC affiliated with him. He's running on purely hard-money donations from the grassroots, which allows him more control over how that's spent.

edited 10th Oct '15 12:42:16 AM by Ramidel

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#103016: Oct 10th 2015 at 1:41:53 AM

I think that "establishment" is a mere slur that is thrown at any party you don't like. Sort of a less loaded "fascist".

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#103017: Oct 10th 2015 at 2:14:50 AM

i've always found america's obsession with gun ownership both disturbing and fascinating myself.

i don't necessarily have a problem with people owning firearms, but it should be a privilege, not a right. a privilege that you earn by proving VERY THOROUGHLY that you deserve it, with rigorous psychological exams, training programs, etc.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#103018: Oct 10th 2015 at 3:07:23 AM

[up][up]In America, the term "establishment Republican" doesn't quite fit that - it mostly means "not affiliated with the Tea Party," and has connotations of being affiliated with the Chamber of Commerce, big business, and tax cuts for the rich without associated spending cuts. Most of us in this thread like them a fair bit better than the Tea Party Republicans.

[up]My problem with that is that any privilege that can be distributed unequally will be. In America, your suggestion would essentially mean that gun ownership would be even more overwhelmingly white than it is now, and I'm not comfortable with such a change. (Then again, historically, the best way to get gun control passed has been for black people to start buying large quantities of guns.)

edited 10th Oct '15 3:10:27 AM by Ramidel

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#103019: Oct 10th 2015 at 3:12:17 AM

Chiefly because the Establishment Republicans tend to be willing to deal in things like compromise and aren't absolutists like the Tea Party. They're assholes, but they're assholes you can at least bargain and back-scratch with.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#103020: Oct 10th 2015 at 3:17:33 AM

those are valid concerns. all the same, i very strongly feel that owning firearms is a huge responsibility, one which you need to prove that you are ready to take up. it's a matter of principle for me.

i do not necessarily think that letting just anyone have access to a firearm is a good idea. i will freely admit that i'm not supremely informed on the requirements for gun ownership in individual states, if some of them already have such measures props to them.

edited 10th Oct '15 3:22:11 AM by wehrmacht

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#103021: Oct 10th 2015 at 4:54:07 AM

Texas universities are trying to properly handle the state's campus carry law in the wake of multiple school shootings.

One of the most prominent opponents of the "campus carry" bill that passed in Texas this year was University of Texas System Chancellor William Mc Raven, a former Navy SEA Ls admiral responsible for directing the raid that killed Osama bin Laden. "I've spent my whole life around guns. I grew up in Texas hunting. I spent 37 years in the military. I like guns, but I just don't think having them on campus is the right place," he told CNN.

Mc Raven is responsible for implementing Senate Bill 11. The Republican-run Legislature passed the bill to make Texas the eighth U.S. state to allow concealed handguns to be carried into classrooms, dormitories and other buildings at public and private universities, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Texas joins Colorado, Idaho, Kansas, Mississippi, Utah, Wisconsin and Oregon — which suffered a mass shooting last week at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg.

The bill many know as the "campus carry" law is scheduled to go into effect August 1, the 50-year anniversary of the UT Tower sniper shooting, one of the first mass murders on a college campus in America. "We are going to follow the law, and we are going to have to figure out the best way to do that to maintain the appropriate campus life, to keep our faculty and our staff and visitors as safe as possible," Mc Raven told CNN.

Groups known as "working committees" at each Texas college are researching ideas on how the laws should be implemented, and will report their findings later this year to the Chancellor's office. Mc Raven said the law creates an "environment of unknown." "I have been shot at before. And so I know what and how people react when they are being shot at. So if you aren't trained in that environment you probably aren't going to react the way people think you will react naturally. And consequently having another armed individual in the middle of an active shooter profile, in some cases could create more confusion than helping to resolve the problem."

"I don't think UT will suddenly become the 'Wild West' with open carry and guns flying," said Allison Peregory, chairman of the Young Conservatives of Texas. Peregory, a pre-law junior at UT Austin, also works with the national organization Students for Concealed Carry on the UT campus. She describes the Austin campus as liberal overall, with a large "anti-carry" contingent made up of both students and professors.

She plans to get her concealed handgun license as soon as she is eligible and hopes to carry a concealed weapon to class when the law goes into effect next August. She said she will feel safer going to class with a gun, and that carrying guns on campus is nothing new. "UT has had concealed carry just on campus for the past 20 years. It's not a foreign concept. Campus carry is not this new radical thought process." What is new about the current law is that it not only allows guns on campus, but inside campus buildings as well. "A lot of students don't really understand that this bill permits only CHL (concealed handgun licensing) holders to have a concealed weapon. They don't understand how few people that actually means on campus carrying a concealed weapon."

According to the University of Texas at Austin, since the law says you have to be 21 before applying for a concealed carry license, fewer than 1% of students will qualify for a license to carry a concealed weapon in classrooms or academic buildings. The law also does not allow open carry on campus, she said.

Over 280 professors and counting have signed a petition calling the new legislation a "direct assault on our free speech rights." The possibility of guns in the classroom is going to "interfere with students' free speech in the classroom," a place already often tense when certain issues are raised, said Ellen Spiro, professor at UT's Department of Radio-TV-Film and co-founder of the newly formed Gun Free UT.

"There is a movement brewing. I think people are ready to stand up to the gun lobby that is forcing this and going too far to force their guns in our classrooms and dormitories." Some in the group have said they are prepared to engage in civil disobedience to make their point about guns, Spiro said. "People don't want to voice controversial views if somebody is packing a gun next to them who disagrees," she said.

Mc Raven echoed those concerns. "You will stymie discussion — heated discussion in areas — in the classroom." Mc Raven also expressed concern "about any faculty and student engagement in office hours where the faculty member is having to tell the student they didn't make the grade they wanted."

Earier this week, Economics Professor Emeritus Daniel Hamermesh withdrew from UT out of "self protection." "With a huge group of students, my perception is that the risk that a disgruntled student might bring a gun into the classroom and start shooting at me has been substantially enhanced by the concealed-carry law," Hamermesh wrote in his resignation letter to University of Texas at Austin President Gregory Fenves.

UT had 2,557 faculty members as of 2014, and according to the university there are currently 11,596 staff employees, and 11,092 student employees. Many Republican lawmakers believe that more legislation like this is necessary for campus safety, especially at such large institutions. Texas state Rep. Jonathan Stickland, a Republican from Bedford, wrote on his Facebook page that it's "time to double down on our efforts to restore Second Amendment rights and get rid of gun free zones everywhere."

The Independent Colleges and Universities of Texas, a nonprofit organization representing 38 campuses in the state, said no decisions had been made about the new law among its members. "We were given discretion at private campuses if we wanted to opt out. Everyone is doing their diligence exercise of consulting with the students, faculty, and staff as required by law and then making a decision," said ICUT President Ray Martinez.

CNN contacted 23 of 36 private four-year colleges and universities that are listed in Texas, and all said they currently ban guns on campus, but are reviewing their policies. Opting out is not an option for Mc Raven, who believes that regardless of whether the law exists, mass shootings on campuses are now an "unfortunate fact of the environment."

And back in the mainstream political sphere, Ted Cruz shows amazing levels of optimism, apparently ignoring all the virulently anti-Hispanic rhetoric from Trump supporters. Or forgetting that he is, in fact, Hispanic.

Ted Cruz said Thursday that he did not think Donald Trump would be the Republican nominee, his harshest criticism yet of a candidate he has assiduously avoided even brushing with judgment. Asked by WABC Radio's Rita Cosby whether he believed that "eventually, you could beat him, based on your principles," Cruz said he could. "I think that's right. I think that, in time, I don't believe Donald is going to be the nominee and I think, in time, the lion's share of his supporters end up with us," Cruz said in an interview taped Thursday that will air in full on Sunday.

Cruz, a generally cautious candidate and public speaker, has made no bones about courting the supporters of Trump, who has won over many fans of the conservative right. He has repeatedly needled his opponents for hitting Trump — wisdom he again shared in the interview Thursday — but Cruz has treated Trump as a serious, viable candidate. And he has long maintained that Trump's rise would benefit the Cruz campaign, saying that Trump has encouraged voters to use a certain set of criteria to evaluate candidates that is favorable to Cruz.

"And I think the reason is what I was just saying, that if you look to the records of all the Republican candidates, there's a big difference between my record and that of everyone else if you ask, who has stood up to Washington?" Cruz told Cosby. "I think his involvement has been tremendously helpful to my campaign, because it's framed the central question of this primary." But the question has always been to what lengths Cruz would go to avoid angering Trump, who has elbowed his rivals who threw the first blow. Cruz, who has made a reputation in Washington for battling his own party, has been the sole Republican not to do that.

Yet there has always been signs that the relationship was more short-term alliance than a long-term political friendship. Cruz invited Trump to appear at an unusual two-candidate rally against the Iran deal largely, Cruz said, because of Trump's ability to get the media to cover it. And a top Cruz adviser once suggested that supporters of Trump at a rally were there to be "part of a show." Trump, for his part, has said he would be open to hitting the Texas freshman should he climb too closely to Trump in the polls.

I admit to hoping that last sentence was meant literally.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#103022: Oct 10th 2015 at 5:06:16 AM

Short form - most states have some kind of requirement (at least getting a license) for concealed carry/handguns, but only a few make it "may-issue," which generally means "don't issue unless the person has connections."

Rifles (non-automatic) and shotguns are pretty much unrestricted everywhere unless someone's got the bright idea to ban guns based on "military-style" accessories. Note that in rural Alaska, the people of the villages hunt as a simple matter of putting food on the table, so up here, the idea of a may-issue license like you want would get you laughed at. I hear it's similar in Vermont, which is why Bernie Sanders really hates having to put up with advocates of strict gun control getting mad that he's not on their side. He's very much someone who knows hunters and, unless you ask the NRA, is fairly pro-gun.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#103023: Oct 10th 2015 at 6:23:48 AM

[in Alaska]the idea of a may-issue license like you want would get you laughed at.
Alaskans hunt deer/elk/moose/whatever with handguns? That need a concealed carry permit?

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#103024: Oct 10th 2015 at 6:27:11 AM

[up]Wehrmacht said "firearms," not "handguns." I was talking about two separate issues.

edited 10th Oct '15 6:28:39 AM by Ramidel

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#103025: Oct 10th 2015 at 6:42:15 AM

[up] Fair enough, I thought the two paragraphs were connected. Also it gave me the humorous mental image of a dude skulking through the Alaskan forest in full MIB kit, one hand inside his suit jacket, waiting for the right moment to draw on an unsuspecting Bambi. waii

So, that protest organizer in Roseburg, OR? Apparently he's a convicted felon with DUI and assault charges under his belt - for punching out his own mom. Classy. Bold emphasis mine, italics from the link.

The embarrassing spectacle in Roseburg consisted of protesters with Confederate flags, ‘Don’t Tread On Me’ Flags and one man with a ‘Go Back To Kenya!’ sign. Protesters held signs reading, “Obama not welcome.”

The organizer of the event titled “Defend Roseburg, Deny Barack Obama,” Casey Runyan, won the Republican primary for House District 9 in Southern Oregon in July of 2014, but he was rejected by GOP leadership when he asked for support.

“The reason I am not getting any support from the Republican leadership is because of a crime that occurred,” Runyan admitted at the time.

In December 2004, Runyan was arrested on charges of driving under the influence and felony assault in which he later pleaded guilty and served eight months in county jail.

The Statesman Journal reported:

According to the incident report from the Ogemaw County Sheriff’s Office, Runyan returned to his mother’s house from a bar on the evening of Dec. 19, 2004 and woke her boyfriend, Walter Gembarowski, by punching him in the face and shouting obscenities.

“Walter woke up but was unable to do much to protect himself because the blankets restricted his movements,” according to the report. “Walter stated he could not see much due to blood getting in his eyes.”

Runyan’s mother told deputies that her son hit her in the mouth when she tried to break up the fight.

Runyan left the house, but he soon returned and punched through his mother’s bedroom window, grabbed the phone line and ripped it out while she spoke with a 911 dispatcher.

Runyan claimed the rally was to protest the President for ‘politicizing’ the shooting deaths of of nine people at Umpqua Community College, but the organizer had a political agenda of his own.

Runyan promised thousands would gather, but according to reports, he did not accomplish his goal.

Runyan’s Facebook page ‘like’s includes ‘Ban Sharia Law,’ ‘3%ers Oregon,’We are Darren Wilson,’ ‘Tea Party Extremists’ and a host of extreme gun rights groups.

The group’s Facebook page no longer appears to be up. We wonder why. Certainly they have some patriotic stories to share about how rude, shallow, narcissistic and nasty they were to the President of the United States, while they slapped the victims’ families in the face during their time of grief.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

Total posts: 417,856
Top