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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#102976: Oct 9th 2015 at 11:56:11 AM

Not who, where. It's the town where the recent mass shooting happened. They want to defend themselves from the President coming to visit the families of those who got shot.

EDIT: Pagetoppers suck. Roseburg is the name of the town.

edited 9th Oct '15 11:56:48 AM by Ramidel

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#102977: Oct 9th 2015 at 11:56:49 AM

Why, because Obama's going to finish the job? tongue

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#102978: Oct 9th 2015 at 11:57:58 AM

...not even funny, Bonsai.

Obama coming to town sounds like it endangers their right to bear whatever guns they wish. The families in question aren't the ones toting firepower around like idiots.

edited 9th Oct '15 11:58:25 AM by Ramidel

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102979: Oct 9th 2015 at 11:59:26 AM

Oh, fuck those lunatics.

On the other topic, what makes the Speaker situation super-duper ironic is that a House unable to vote on anything is barely different from the House we have now, with one important difference: there won't be any continuing resolution on the budget. Oops. Or rather, yay — it's the Tea Party's dream. By withholding their votes for Speaker, they can finally achieve their declared goal of completely shutting down government, and they can do so indefinitely.

Oops. Bet the Framers didn't anticipate that one.

edited 9th Oct '15 12:00:47 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#102980: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:00:44 PM

Including the US Militarynote .

Keep Rolling On
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#102981: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:01:36 PM

It's basically a bunch of people objecting to the president coming to town to express sympathy towards the families who were hurt. Because apparently THEIR feelings about their gun rights are the more important ones here. And GOOD GOD do I hate to hear about the president "politicizing" things that happen; it's already political, it has been for years because this has been a problem for years and the claims that the president is doing so is just trying to shut down all conversation on the issue that doesn't agree with them.

Anyway, the whole Speaker situation is kind of bizarrely entertaining. Although it's kind of sad to see Boehner stuck in a situation he clearly doesn't want to be in anymore. He's been wanting to leave for a while, seems like.

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#102982: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:02:48 PM

Shutting down the government, if it goes on long enough, might that be the albatross libertarians have to wear around their neck?

Might that get people to demand major changes? Or at least stop voting Republican?

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#102983: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:04:18 PM

It didn't last time, and if it does last long enough to do that this time it'll also cause a whole heck of a lot of damage in the mean time. So uh... no way to know until we see what happens, I guess.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#102984: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:05:31 PM

@Fighteer: Except for one thing. An actual shutdown will eventually lead to a Democrat/Moderate coalition and Pelosi and McCarthy hammering out a budget over the anguished cries of the teabaggers.

Boehner was able to do just that, but then he's not running for re-election and he can afford to #givenofucks. Imagine Republicans not in give-no-fucks mode having to ally with the Democrats to avoid complete disaster, and especially imagine such Republicans fending off Tea Party challenges in their districts.

Permanent coalition, even on a small scale, where the establishment Republicans get most of what they want and the Tea Party gets nothing. (No, the Socialists will not break off from the Democrats - the TP is too big and nasty to allow anything but united opposition.)

edited 9th Oct '15 12:05:52 PM by Ramidel

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102985: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:05:56 PM

Well, obviously Boehner's not going to resign if he can't be certain of being succeeded by someone, but he'd better not keel over of a stroke or a heart attack or something, or get primaried for that matter.

[up] I agree that the obvious, sane answer is moderate Republicans caucusing with Democrats to get a Speaker elected — most likely Nancy Pelosi — but what happens if they fear losing their next primaries more than they fear the disastrous consequences of a long-term shutdown?

edited 9th Oct '15 12:07:43 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#102986: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:08:16 PM

He can't be primaried, because there's no way he's running again in 2016. He might stay in until then if the GOP can't get it together, but I get the feeling that 2016 is his limit.

And yeah, hence the need for safe moderate Republicans to carve out their own bloc and their own electoral math. My own Representative, cursed be his name (Don Young), is an old-guard kleptocrat and completely invincible to a primary challenge. The Tea Party up in Alaska exists on sufferance at best, and our Democrats will rally to support an establishment Alaska Republican against a Tea Partier (our current Governor is an independent ex-Republican with a Democratic lieutenant governor, which is exactly the dream coalition we're looking for). There have to be other seats with individual establishment Republicans who are strong enough to tell the teabaggers to go sniff.

edited 9th Oct '15 12:13:57 PM by Ramidel

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102987: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:09:24 PM

Yes, but would there be enough support after 2016 for any Republican to ascend to Speaker, assuming they keep the House as is almost mathematically certain? Whatever the case, Boehner's smile at announcing his departure has surely turned upside down by now.

edited 9th Oct '15 12:09:46 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#102988: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:12:47 PM

The GOP could do what it really should have at the start: they call themselves "the Tea Party". Well, they're a separate party: let them organise their own damn primaries and organisation. *boot*

edited 9th Oct '15 12:16:51 PM by Euodiachloris

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#102989: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:16:13 PM

America isn't Westminster-style. You can't boot someone from a party here - anyone can register for a party and vote in its primaries. If independents weren't allowed to vote in Republican primaries, you could bet I'd be a registered Republican.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102990: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:17:31 PM

[up][up] That can't happen, because the Tea Party has no political power without being part of one of the two majors. The system doesn't let the parties pick and choose their members; what happens is that someone says, "I'm running as a Republican," collects the necessary signatures to get on the ballot, and voila. The only way to keep people you dislike out is to outvote them in primaries, and the Tea Party dominates those.

The tail is dragging the dog to its grave and the dog can't even gnaw it off.

edited 9th Oct '15 12:18:12 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#102991: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:17:43 PM

So? Past time to change the rules, if you can't govern or represent.

edited 9th Oct '15 12:18:47 PM by Euodiachloris

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102992: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:18:58 PM

The individual states would have to pass new laws governing ballot entry. That sure as hell isn't going to happen if the Tea Party dominates their legislatures.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#102993: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:26:05 PM

It's worth noting that Bernie Sanders is not a registered Democrat. However, nobody is challenging his right to seek the Democratic Party's nomination for President.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#102994: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:27:29 PM

Emergencies create precedents. Get other parts of the system to do their check jobs and force the changes through. This would not be the first time Washington will have had to put the foot down, mess or not.

The tail can keep doing the wagging only so long as the rest of the system let's it. Holding the primaries hostage with Koch and super PAC money is a national emergency.

Old laws need putting back in place; new ones stopping corporate interfering need putting in place. Such as secret ballots in all areas of government, not just voters.

Congress can't get bought if nobody knows who voted with their conscience.

edited 9th Oct '15 12:28:24 PM by Euodiachloris

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102995: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:30:51 PM

Secret ballots, eh? I suppose you're going to make the case that transparency in government is hostile to democracy due to the problem of people targeting individual representatives because of their votes? I'm not sure I can agree with that; it sounds frankly awful.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#102996: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:31:16 PM

I don't think you have to be in any party to run for president. There's cranks every year who aren't with any party. But Bernie has a long history of siding with the Democrats as they're more closely aligned with his views than the Republicans, and he can get support from the Democrats to get his name out there and get funding.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#102997: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:35:04 PM

@ Euo: Looking at the various current Laws concerning a State of Emergency, it appears that a President does actually not have that level of power, even in that scenario. It might even be contrary to the Constitution.

edited 9th Oct '15 12:36:22 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#102998: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:52:09 PM

Euo, the problem is that to change the rules you have to do it at a state level, and that's where the tail wags the dog the strongest .

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#102999: Oct 9th 2015 at 12:54:14 PM

Vermin Supreme, this is your moment!

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#103000: Oct 9th 2015 at 1:25:40 PM

The Skaven Ascension hotline is busy right now, please try again later.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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