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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#102851: Oct 8th 2015 at 10:07:32 AM

Holy hell those options look even worse than Mc Karthy.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#102852: Oct 8th 2015 at 10:49:39 AM

Nice going Madaw.tongue

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#102853: Oct 8th 2015 at 10:58:42 AM

@Fighteer - I'm sure FNC will take that credit first. They've been outraged at the Benghazi thing.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#102854: Oct 8th 2015 at 11:05:09 AM

Should we get rid of the constitution An old article, but an intriguing one. I sometimes wonder if we need reform on the level of what Peter the Great did to Russia to drag this country into the 21st century, rather the people like it or not.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102855: Oct 8th 2015 at 11:07:57 AM

The Constitution is fine; its fundamental principles have stood up remarkably well over the two and a half centuries of our nation's life. As with any governing document, it needs revisions from time to time; the most critical need right now is to declare businesses not to be people with First Amendment rights; next in line is to repeal or modify the Second Amendment.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#102856: Oct 8th 2015 at 11:20:55 AM

What we need is what is apparently half of one of the two political parties to stop trying to burn everything down to the ground in the name of bringing back America.

Also the Freedom Caucus has basically said they will not give any votes to a Republican who would even think of compromising.

I think we're heading into a government shutdown by Christmas.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102857: Oct 8th 2015 at 11:27:39 AM

Put another way, the Constitution is not our problem. The people on the Republican side who are holding the nation hostage over ideological principles aren't even remotely following it.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#102858: Oct 8th 2015 at 11:37:03 AM

There's actually some suggestions in there that I think are a terrible idea. For one, serving only one term would potentially allow lobbyists rather than lawmakers to gain all the experience in lawmaking; however flawed our lawmakers are now this is their career and it takes time to one, figure it out, and two, build the sort of relationships it takes to make things happen with your fellow lawmakers. Second, getting rid of the Senate only gets rid of representation that's meant to balance against the influence of numbers.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#102859: Oct 8th 2015 at 11:39:41 AM

Influence of numbers and TIME. The Senate's six year cycles makes them slightly more able to deal with reality in general than the house is able to, and make them arguably less able-to be-influenced by the eternal campaign season that plagues the house.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102860: Oct 8th 2015 at 11:40:56 AM

The Senate is, currently, significantly more representative of our nation's political demographics than the House of Representatives, thanks to gerrymandering, and even that isn't saying much.

If I were going to revise the Constitution, I'd get rid of states entirely as political entities (we could keep them for administrative purposes, I guess) and apportion Congressional votes directly by population so that each person has an approximately equal vote.

It is important to remember that the Constitution, in some respects, was founded on dangerously obsolete principles — one commonly expressed belief of the framers was that representation should be meritocratic; that the common man was too ignorant to be allowed to have equal say in government. However, that belief is not contained anywhere in its text.

edited 8th Oct '15 11:53:10 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#102861: Oct 8th 2015 at 11:52:31 AM

I'd redraw the states actually. Match geographic and demographic realities rather than random straight lines.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#102862: Oct 8th 2015 at 11:54:13 AM

I think nearly everyone would object to eliminating states as political entities in that manner.

[up]Dude, it's not random straight lines. They're based on what were the realities of the times they were created. The straight lines, for instance, were drawn in a time when trains and not rivers were a way to transport goods and such. And a lot of the lines are drawn in such ways as to ensure every state has diversity to their economies.

edited 8th Oct '15 11:55:38 AM by AceofSpades

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102863: Oct 8th 2015 at 11:55:29 AM

Of course they'd object. I consider that a cogent argument only in that it would make it impossible to gather the necessary votes to make such a change occur. Otherwise it's Appeal to Tradition. I'd ask them to prove that the current state-federal system has benefited the nation more than it's hindered it.

edited 8th Oct '15 11:57:50 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#102864: Oct 8th 2015 at 11:55:59 AM

I think the states are fine. Just make it so the seats are portioned based on political demographics instead of geographic lines.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#102865: Oct 8th 2015 at 11:56:56 AM

That was my point, actually. Kind of a "no one sees this as a thing that is broken or even particularly relevant to solving the problems we have" kind of argument.

Me, I'm more concerned with the way voting works. Electoral colleges are kind of outdated in the modern day.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102866: Oct 8th 2015 at 11:58:03 AM

The main value of states as political entities seems to be to enable, e.g., North Dakotans to vote to stick it to those ignorant, lazy South Dakotans; or to enable Oklahoma to claim that "what works for Ohio doesn't work for us", as if the laws of economics and human nature change when you drive across a line on a map.

The political divisions in this country have nothing to do with states and everything to do with racial and urban/rural demographics.

edited 8th Oct '15 12:00:17 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#102867: Oct 8th 2015 at 12:00:17 PM

Human nature doesn't change, but people like a government that is more local to themselves. State government is just one sort of government that is more local to ourselves. I fail to see how getting rid of it in any way would truly address problems.

edited 8th Oct '15 12:00:50 PM by AceofSpades

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102868: Oct 8th 2015 at 12:00:59 PM

I didn't say we'd take away state governments, just that states would no longer be jurisdictional entities when it comes to apportioning votes for national office.

I do want to get rid of the idea of state sovereignty. This way, stupidity like closing three quarters of your DMVs while passing voter ID laws would be nipped in the bud.

edited 8th Oct '15 12:05:31 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#102869: Oct 8th 2015 at 12:02:11 PM

You mean natural "laws" of economics as opposed to economic laws, right?

Natural laws like the invisible hand, supply and demand, sex sells and all that.

edited 8th Oct '15 12:02:53 PM by Keybreak

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#102870: Oct 8th 2015 at 12:02:32 PM

A thing that can be solved by nixing the Electoral College and letting one vote equal one vote, which seems simpler to implement as a thing.

Mind you, doing either of those things would be like pushing a boulder up a steep hill. But the Electoral College is why things are appointed the way they are.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102871: Oct 8th 2015 at 12:10:43 PM

[up][up] Yes, that is what I mean. Supply and demand don't suddenly reverse roles because you drove across a train track. Part of our problem is states trying to legislate away economic realities.

[up] Mathematically speaking, it would probably be better to elect the President via simple majority of all voters at the polls, yes, rather than fooling around with districts and electors.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#102872: Oct 8th 2015 at 12:12:35 PM

[up] With or without a run-off vote first?

[down] That's more or less what I meant. smile

edited 8th Oct '15 12:16:25 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102873: Oct 8th 2015 at 12:15:11 PM

Not sure what you mean. If there are more than two declared candidates and none achieves a simple majority of votes, then a runoff might be indicated. I don't have a strict preference there. Runoff votes have the problem of attracting far lower turnout, which makes them subject to manipulation.

edited 8th Oct '15 12:18:01 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#102874: Oct 8th 2015 at 12:27:10 PM

[up]Wait, "simple majority" is "half the votes plus one" in English?

edited 8th Oct '15 12:27:32 PM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102875: Oct 8th 2015 at 12:27:47 PM

That's my understanding of the meaning. To me, an "absolute majority" would mean half of all possible voters, not just the ones who voted.

edited 8th Oct '15 12:28:18 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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