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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
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By doing what? Mothballing health care? Deregulating mental health medicine? Cutting down education in impoverished areas? Leaving racist and sectarian politicians unchecked? Doing nothing to do away with the crime culture? Giving slap on the wrist to cops engaging unlawful kills? Passing down laws and acts that breach privacy rights and outright creating general mistrust from the government? Polarizing the internal politics and essentially reducing the whole US political debate to hyperboles and straw-manning? Leaving inept politicians in office because most of the US voters are too apathetic to make their votes count?
No Aussies still can get their rifles and their murder rate didn't really change because of it as it still followed the preceding drop patterns.
edited 2nd Oct '15 12:40:22 PM by AngelusNox
Inter arma enim silent legesWhat I am getting at, is that these problems was not one that appeared from day one outta nowhere. It is a much more convoluted problem that is not going to be solved in a single day, with a single law, with a single act.
Just because I am saying "This one action will not work" does not mean I am implying for everyone to lie down on their couches and do nothing.
edited 2nd Oct '15 12:41:00 PM by Aszur
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
What is pissing me off is that the whole debate is being reduced to: Lets ban things, lets get rid of things and the problems will go away.
No they won't. The problems run much deeper than just access to fire arms.
Yes, the US needs some restrictions towards firearms ownership.
Better background checks, mandatory tracking for private sales and transfers, gun user ID, mandatory safety training and aptness tests for gun owners along a better trained police.
Not, lets ban semi-automatic rifles and magazines with more than 10 bullets.
Also fuck the NRA, they are as toxic to gun users as the Brady bunch is for the gun control crowd.
edited 2nd Oct '15 12:51:42 PM by AngelusNox
Inter arma enim silent leges
Stop the hysterical strawmanning. Nobody in this conversation has said what you are claiming.
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In that case...I gotta ask. Are you talking to me? Or just in general? Because I am advocating that widespread gun bans outta nowhere is not going to achieve the desired result at all.
Otherwise I just assumed correctly you were talking to me and for that I apologize.
edited 2nd Oct '15 12:50:04 PM by Aszur
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothesMuch as i disagree with gun ownership, there are indeed plenty of law-abiding citizen owners, many of whom hold positions in support of sensible gun control. I would suggest an all-out ban as a matter of personal preference, but i think the policy should be more targeted to safety (smart guns), more comprehensive background checking, harsher punishments for violations of background check regs, and better profiling for potential mass-shooters (it's not all on mental health, since that creates a stigma against other mentally ill persons, the majority of whom don't have mass-murder tendencies, although it is a fairly identifiable pattern whatever their degree of mental health).
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In general.
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And then 4/10ths of the US population will be criminals.
Also I wasn't aiming at no one at this thread, I just read the Obama speech on Reuters after the event and the rhetoric being propped up every time some mass shooting happens.
edited 2nd Oct '15 12:57:21 PM by AngelusNox
Inter arma enim silent legesAt least it'll be white people filling our prisons instead of blacks and hispanics.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"That begs the question: If police are racist, why do we want them to have a monopoly on guns?
Leviticus 19:34As yet, medical science has sadly not discovered a cure for a privileged sense of entitlement.
Maybe I'm getting the wrong idea, but you seem to be giving off the impression that you think all of the violence in the U.S. is caused by people being high and/or mentally-ill.
edited 2nd Oct '15 1:01:49 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Well in an "ideal" world I could get rid of people's money problems by banning money.
But that would hardly solve the problem that comes from money, right?
Guns kill. They are really good at this. But guns themselves do not bring about the lack of opportunities, poverty, health, socializing, etc that is brought about by neglectful government measures.
edited 2nd Oct '15 1:07:50 PM by Aszur
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothesLetting poor people and people with mental problems have access to lethal weapons doesn't help things.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Maybe we should not be asking why poor people and mentally ill people have easy access to guns. Maybe we should be asking why must poor people resort to guns as the only way of finding an economical opportunity in life, and why do mentally ill people have poor access to health networks that can monitor them as they need?
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothesPretty sure Nox hit the nail on the head - better standards (including getting rid of the bullshit "You aren't permitted to track firearms deaths!" rule) are needed to curb this, not an outright ban. I live in a rural area, and deer season is a big thing (along with turkey and other hunting seasons).
That said, better training should be required nation-wide, as standards for that vary wildly by County, let alone by State. Some places you never need training for a hunting license - others, you need training just to own a gun.
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Indeed. But neither of those things is on the table, so you go for whatever is within reach as a solution.
edited 2nd Oct '15 1:12:24 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"No country on earth has been able to quell the black market. Not even the U.S.
On the levels of "what is and what is not impossible", "better education, healthcare and/or job opportunities" is a lot more manageable overtime than "Let's get rid of all the guns"
I would not even know where to begin, logistically speaking, for the second.
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

You should read more of the black markets and their consequences on things such as liquor in some "dry" countries.
Heck, you do not even have to go too far to do that. Let me know how that drug thing is going compared to nations that have banned it and nations that have legalized and regularized it.
"Less guns" is not the solution, it is just a very small part of it. If "more guns" was the cause, then Switzerland would be chaos incarnate. More has to do with the culture, shitty as fuck healthcare, and sectarianism. And because many U.S politicians have historically collectively shrugged their shoulders and gone "MEH" at the prospect of meddling into these areas, then the consequences are bearing their fruit now.
edited 2nd Oct '15 12:30:42 PM by Aszur
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes