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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#102501: Oct 2nd 2015 at 12:30:03 PM

It works in every other society on Earth. It's were just to ignorant and stupid..sorry I mean individualistic, to do it right.

You should read more of the black markets and their consequences on things such as liquor in some "dry" countries.

Heck, you do not even have to go too far to do that. Let me know how that drug thing is going compared to nations that have banned it and nations that have legalized and regularized it.

"Less guns" is not the solution, it is just a very small part of it. If "more guns" was the cause, then Switzerland would be chaos incarnate. More has to do with the culture, shitty as fuck healthcare, and sectarianism. And because many U.S politicians have historically collectively shrugged their shoulders and gone "MEH" at the prospect of meddling into these areas, then the consequences are bearing their fruit now.

edited 2nd Oct '15 12:30:42 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#102502: Oct 2nd 2015 at 12:32:11 PM

[up] What do you mean bearing fruit now? They have been bearing fruit since fucking Colombine!!

Edit: And Australia took guns away form all it's citizens, and it worked out just fine for them.

edited 2nd Oct '15 12:32:46 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#102503: Oct 2nd 2015 at 12:33:15 PM

And Columbine is a rather modern piece of U.S history. It is nothing far off from the past.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#102504: Oct 2nd 2015 at 12:33:36 PM

Look we all know that guns aren't the cause of the problem but the ease of availability when it comes to getting a gun is making it infinitely worse.

Oh really when?
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#102505: Oct 2nd 2015 at 12:38:49 PM

[up][up][up]By doing what? Mothballing health care? Deregulating mental health medicine? Cutting down education in impoverished areas? Leaving racist and sectarian politicians unchecked? Doing nothing to do away with the crime culture? Giving slap on the wrist to cops engaging unlawful kills? Passing down laws and acts that breach privacy rights and outright creating general mistrust from the government? Polarizing the internal politics and essentially reducing the whole US political debate to hyperboles and straw-manning? Leaving inept politicians in office because most of the US voters are too apathetic to make their votes count?

No Aussies still can get their rifles and their murder rate didn't really change because of it as it still followed the preceding drop patterns.

edited 2nd Oct '15 12:40:22 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#102506: Oct 2nd 2015 at 12:39:24 PM

[up][up]That is exactly what I said.

What I am getting at, is that these problems was not one that appeared from day one outta nowhere. It is a much more convoluted problem that is not going to be solved in a single day, with a single law, with a single act.

[up] Just because I am saying "This one action will not work" does not mean I am implying for everyone to lie down on their couches and do nothing.

edited 2nd Oct '15 12:41:00 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#102507: Oct 2nd 2015 at 12:47:41 PM

[up]What is pissing me off is that the whole debate is being reduced to: Lets ban things, lets get rid of things and the problems will go away.

No they won't. The problems run much deeper than just access to fire arms.

Yes, the US needs some restrictions towards firearms ownership.

Better background checks, mandatory tracking for private sales and transfers, gun user ID, mandatory safety training and aptness tests for gun owners along a better trained police.

Not, lets ban semi-automatic rifles and magazines with more than 10 bullets.

Also fuck the NRA, they are as toxic to gun users as the Brady bunch is for the gun control crowd.

edited 2nd Oct '15 12:51:42 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102508: Oct 2nd 2015 at 12:49:19 PM

[up] Stop the hysterical strawmanning. Nobody in this conversation has said what you are claiming.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#102509: Oct 2nd 2015 at 12:49:21 PM

(Eh, never mind)

edited 2nd Oct '15 12:49:58 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#102510: Oct 2nd 2015 at 12:49:47 PM

[up][up][up]In that case...I gotta ask. Are you talking to me? Or just in general? Because I am advocating that widespread gun bans outta nowhere is not going to achieve the desired result at all.

Otherwise I just assumed correctly you were talking to me and for that I apologize.

edited 2nd Oct '15 12:50:04 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#102511: Oct 2nd 2015 at 12:52:49 PM

Much as i disagree with gun ownership, there are indeed plenty of law-abiding citizen owners, many of whom hold positions in support of sensible gun control. I would suggest an all-out ban as a matter of personal preference, but i think the policy should be more targeted to safety (smart guns), more comprehensive background checking, harsher punishments for violations of background check regs, and better profiling for potential mass-shooters (it's not all on mental health, since that creates a stigma against other mentally ill persons, the majority of whom don't have mass-murder tendencies, although it is a fairly identifiable pattern whatever their degree of mental health).

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#102512: Oct 2nd 2015 at 12:54:28 PM

[up][up]In general.

[up][up][up][up]

Offer an amnesty period during which people may turn in personally owned weapons; after that, it becomes an increasingly severe crime to be in possession of one. We'll also have to ban privately owned ammunition to get rid of end-arounds, plus gun manufacturing equipment.

And then 4/10ths of the US population will be criminals.

Also I wasn't aiming at no one at this thread, I just read the Obama speech on Reuters after the event and the rhetoric being propped up every time some mass shooting happens.

edited 2nd Oct '15 12:57:21 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102513: Oct 2nd 2015 at 12:57:18 PM

At least it'll be white people filling our prisons instead of blacks and hispanics.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#102514: Oct 2nd 2015 at 12:57:55 PM

Fighteer and Jack immediately acknowledged that they could never actually pass such a law. They were just talking about an ideal world.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#102515: Oct 2nd 2015 at 12:58:35 PM

[up][up]You mean along black and hispanics, those two groups don't rank low on gun ownership.

edited 2nd Oct '15 12:58:45 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#102516: Oct 2nd 2015 at 1:00:06 PM

That begs the question: If police are racist, why do we want them to have a monopoly on guns?

Leviticus 19:34
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#102517: Oct 2nd 2015 at 1:01:19 PM

The US has a drug and a mental health problem, banning guns won't do jack shit besides shifting the cause of death.

As yet, medical science has sadly not discovered a cure for a privileged sense of entitlement.

Maybe I'm getting the wrong idea, but you seem to be giving off the impression that you think all of the violence in the U.S. is caused by people being high and/or mentally-ill.

edited 2nd Oct '15 1:01:49 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#102518: Oct 2nd 2015 at 1:03:28 PM

[up][up]The solution to racist police is not giving citizens the right to shoot them. Why the hell would you even ask that?

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#102519: Oct 2nd 2015 at 1:04:47 PM

[up][up]And poverty.

I'd argue that the spree killers are people with bad mental health.

The most of the violence issue in the US can be pinned on the War on Drugs and gang violence, the rest to just plain poor education.

edited 2nd Oct '15 1:04:56 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#102520: Oct 2nd 2015 at 1:05:01 PM

Fighteer and Jack immediately acknowledged that they could never actually pass such a law. They were just talking about an ideal world.

Well in an "ideal" world I could get rid of people's money problems by banning money.

But that would hardly solve the problem that comes from money, right?

Guns kill. They are really good at this. But guns themselves do not bring about the lack of opportunities, poverty, health, socializing, etc that is brought about by neglectful government measures.

edited 2nd Oct '15 1:07:50 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102521: Oct 2nd 2015 at 1:06:14 PM

Letting poor people and people with mental problems have access to lethal weapons doesn't help things.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#102522: Oct 2nd 2015 at 1:09:57 PM

Maybe we should not be asking why poor people and mentally ill people have easy access to guns. Maybe we should be asking why must poor people resort to guns as the only way of finding an economical opportunity in life, and why do mentally ill people have poor access to health networks that can monitor them as they need?

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#102523: Oct 2nd 2015 at 1:11:53 PM

Pretty sure Nox hit the nail on the head - better standards (including getting rid of the bullshit "You aren't permitted to track firearms deaths!" rule) are needed to curb this, not an outright ban. I live in a rural area, and deer season is a big thing (along with turkey and other hunting seasons).

That said, better training should be required nation-wide, as standards for that vary wildly by County, let alone by State. Some places you never need training for a hunting license - others, you need training just to own a gun.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102524: Oct 2nd 2015 at 1:12:15 PM

[up][up]Indeed. But neither of those things is on the table, so you go for whatever is within reach as a solution.

edited 2nd Oct '15 1:12:24 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#102525: Oct 2nd 2015 at 1:15:50 PM

No country on earth has been able to quell the black market. Not even the U.S.

On the levels of "what is and what is not impossible", "better education, healthcare and/or job opportunities" is a lot more manageable overtime than "Let's get rid of all the guns"

I would not even know where to begin, logistically speaking, for the second.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

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