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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#102251: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:39:10 PM

At least you know where Assad stands, the rebels, not so much.

But in my opinion a UN intervention(or any kind really) like in Kuwait would be more preferable though.

Backing factions has never turned out well.

edited 29th Sep '15 7:44:38 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#102252: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:42:54 PM

If we intervened on that scale we'd end up inevitably taking a side, so going in with that as an expectation is quite naive.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102253: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:48:43 PM

The level of naivete displayed is astonishing sometimes. How do we imagine that we could occupy Syria and rebuild its entire government, its institutions, even its culture, from scratch, without enlisting the aid of someone in the actual country, and taking sides thereby?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#102254: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:48:55 PM

Once the CIA figures out android technology we can create our own sides!

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#102255: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:49:37 PM

Well there is a difference between ones actions being tangentially beneficial (as it would be with, say, the Kurds and the rebels in Daraa) and actively taking a particular faction's side in fighting. We'd have to be prepared to stop those we find "friendly" from committing attrocities as much as we do the likes of Daesh and Assad.

[up][up]Don't condescend.

And again, not taking a particular organization's side isn't the same thing as not involving people in the government. Part of our problem in Afghanistan, for example, is that by taking the Northern Alliance's side in particular, Pashtuns felt marginalized and thus did not trust us for a very very long time. We thought giving Karzai power would be the antitdote to that, but that just made things worse.

edited 29th Sep '15 7:52:45 PM by FFShinra

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102256: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:50:29 PM

I'm curious how much manpower you'd be willing to commit to this enterprise, how much time, and how much money. Meanwhile, there are still atrocities going on in countries we haven't invaded.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#102257: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:52:14 PM

Realistically realpolitik demands we side with Assad and crush ISIS and the Rebels if necessary.

edited 29th Sep '15 7:52:48 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#102258: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:54:08 PM

Not necessarily with Assad, with Russia. With the caveat that Assad be removed.

I'm sure the Russians are very disappointed in what can only be described as a catastrophic failure on his part to keep the region stable and under Russian control. The Kremlin will be more than happy to put a new puppet in there to replace him.

Oh really when?
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#102259: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:54:10 PM

[up][up][up]Multinational force, several hundred thousand, for a few decades.

I never said it would happen. I'm merely saying what would need to happen to actually resolve the situation. Otherwise, let everyone else try their luck, including the Russians.

And once again, do not condescend.

edited 29th Sep '15 7:54:19 PM by FFShinra

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#102260: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:54:12 PM

So what happens when Assad goes back to oppressing his people and they rebel agian some years down the line?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#102261: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:54:20 PM

Also realpolitik: would other Middle-Eastern nations really cheer us on while we dismantled one of their neighbors and rebuilt it according to our design? What happens when the next one has a civil war?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#102262: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:55:55 PM

Since it'd be a multinational force, they'd be involved with reconstruction and rebuilding.

You seem to assume I want Bush style unilateralism. Do stop with that assumption.

As for the next civil war, that depends if it affects the rest of the world like this one is doing.

[up][up]This is why the current "solution" will not work.

edited 29th Sep '15 7:57:44 PM by FFShinra

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#102263: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:56:13 PM

[up][up]Considering Syria is Shia, while the others are Sunni, more than likely yes, so long as they get a piece of the action.

edited 29th Sep '15 7:58:34 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#102264: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:56:18 PM

So this is what we do now? We personally invade every single nation and rebuild them to our liking? Wow, we really have learned nothing from the past fifty years.

edited 29th Sep '15 7:56:44 PM by Kostya

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#102265: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:58:34 PM

[up][up]Overly simplifying things. Syria is majority Sunni. Significant Shia minority.

[up]Oversimplifying things. We intervene in situations so grave that it affects more than just internal politics. And by we I mean the world. And rebuilding them for stability is different than rebuilding them as phony western style democracies.

edited 29th Sep '15 8:00:06 PM by FFShinra

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#102266: Sep 29th 2015 at 7:59:25 PM

I still say collaborate with the Russians at the price of removing Assad.

That's about the best solution there is right now.

And I'm sure the Russians will be happy to oblige considering that Assad really fucked things up. They'd want a new puppet anyway.

edited 29th Sep '15 7:59:59 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#102267: Sep 29th 2015 at 8:00:45 PM

[up][up]I know that, but in every atlas their described as Shiite, I know its more complicated than that.

edited 29th Sep '15 8:05:08 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#102268: Sep 29th 2015 at 8:02:17 PM

Yeah and thats kinda what set off this mess.

And no, thats not how that works. They're a multiethnic secular military republic with extreme preference for the ruling minority.

EDIT- Stop editing once someone else has posted after you. Your atlas is wrong.

edited 29th Sep '15 8:05:20 PM by FFShinra

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#102269: Sep 29th 2015 at 8:05:57 PM

[up]Which following recent events is most likely to get smaller.

Also blame the atlas makers, they're the ones who screwed up.

edited 29th Sep '15 8:09:13 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#102270: Sep 29th 2015 at 8:06:41 PM

[up]X4 And when the guy the Russians install is doing the same things Assad has done 30 years from now?

edited 29th Sep '15 8:06:53 PM by Canid117

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#102271: Sep 29th 2015 at 8:08:08 PM

Hopefully they won't because we'll be involved in the selection process. Plus Russia won't be stupid enough to pick a lunatic twice.

It's in their best interests to keep the area stable. Russia is not a mustache twirling villain, they're no more evil than us.

Most of our goals are just incompatible is all.

edited 29th Sep '15 8:10:20 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#102272: Sep 29th 2015 at 8:09:44 PM

How many of Assad's neighbors want him around?

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#102273: Sep 29th 2015 at 8:09:45 PM

[up][up]Wanna bet?tongue

edited 29th Sep '15 8:10:09 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#102274: Sep 29th 2015 at 8:10:06 PM

They didn't pick Bashar. He inherited power from his father.

[nja]s everywhere.

EDIT- No one wants him around. But most prefer his formal regme to the alternatives.

Of course, if one partitions the country, the point is somewhat mooted since there would be multiple new leaders...

edited 29th Sep '15 8:11:16 PM by FFShinra

Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#102275: Sep 29th 2015 at 8:15:15 PM

They continued to support him. But the problem with Russia isn't whether or not they are capable but whether or not they care. The Russians are too focused on realpolitik to the point where they set their goal as "stabilize our SAM Site testing ground" rather than "assist in the creation of a functional, stable, fair state."

Alternate wacky ideas for how to handle Syria.

Assist Jordan in annexing the whole thing.

Assist Turkey in Annexing the whole thing.

Assist Turkey and Jordan in Annexing the country and splitting it among themselves.

Send in the Expendables.

Clone a giant Mongolian space squid and dump it in the middle of Damascus thus uniting the disparate factions against a common enemy.

Airdrop crates full of Guns and Ammunition everywhere in the country and televise it.

Sell the whole thing to Walmart.

edited 29th Sep '15 8:20:27 PM by Canid117

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins

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