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TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#101451: Sep 20th 2015 at 7:31:56 PM

At the same time we can't just let the Oathkeepers do whatever they want. Eventually their demands are going to get even more ridiculous.

I'm willing to bet there is a bit of a cat and mouse game going on between the Oath Keepers and authorities. Oath Keepers are deliberately trying to provoke the authorities into a crack down that will draw sympathy and raise support/rally people around the Oath Keepers, and the authorities are waiting for Oath Keepers to cross a line so that when they are busted there won't be broad support for Oath Keepers.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#101452: Sep 20th 2015 at 7:34:19 PM

I'm getting Fort Sumter vibes.

Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#101453: Sep 20th 2015 at 7:47:13 PM

Gods let's hope not. Their rebellion this time wouldn't even be over anything coherent or logical, just fear borne of changing times and a media echo-box.

http://www.vice.com/read/miner-threat-0000747-v22n9

edited 20th Sep '15 7:50:22 PM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#101454: Sep 20th 2015 at 8:05:56 PM

Clinton is different than before, she's not taking things for granted and is being more personable. The article highlighted Sanders' advantage as being about clear platforms up front, but i think Hillary's taking the long road on that one.

Aside from the fact that neither of them are going to get any of their platforms accomplished (the only liberal plank with a chance of passing before congress turns is medical weed, which is gaining traction in red states. Maybe a minimum wage hike, too).

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#101455: Sep 20th 2015 at 8:58:54 PM

Groups like Neo-Nazis hate Jews, so naturally their goals are in alignment with radical Islam.
But they hate Islams as much if not more than they hate Jews.
After all, Separation of Church and State is enshrined in the Constitution and following a religion means you'd be subservient to a higher power.
So only outspoken Pastafarians can be President. I like this idea. grin
his argument is that Islam is inherently against American values and so any candidate who is a Muslim will by virtue of that religion be someone who is unqualified for the presidency.
If he actually phrased it like that, I think 99% of the people I work with would agree with it.
neither of them are going to get any of their platforms accomplished
I think that, if Bernie takes the nomination, he just might shove the Overton window far enough left again to make several points possible. Especially if more traditional/establishment GOP start standing up to the Tea Party and stop going along when they insist on crashing the government.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#101457: Sep 20th 2015 at 10:07:23 PM

@ Wanderer: The Oath Keepers and the Authorities are the same people.

Keep Rolling On
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#101458: Sep 21st 2015 at 5:58:09 AM

Pope Francis v. GOP, Round 1!

Congressional Republicans hope Pope Francis leaves his liberal-leaning views at the Vatican. When he addresses a joint session of Congress Thursday during an event that will be broadcast around the world, a large number of House and Senate Republicans want the leader of the Catholic Church to keep a lid on his progressive attitudes on climate change, immigration, guns and capitalism.

In interviews with CNN, a wide array of GOP lawmakers argued that the Pope's message should stay away from the political fights consuming Washington, and many expressed strong disapproval of the fiery views he's espoused since taking over the papacy in 2013. "I think it's totally inappropriate that the Pope is weighing in on all the real sensitive, far-left issues," said Oklahoma Republican James Inhofe, one of the most conservative senators. "I'm not a Catholic, but my Catholic friends in Oklahoma are not real pleased with it."

Rep. Paul Gosar, a Catholic Republican from Arizona, plans to boycott the event. "I don't need to be lectured by the Pope about climate change," Gosar said in an interview off the House floor. "When he wants to take a political position, I will tell you: He is free and clear to be criticized like the rest of us."

The comments demonstrate how the Pope's visit is creating an awkward moment for Republicans in Washington. While Christian conservatives have long made up an influential segment of their base, and there are areas of agreement between the GOP and the Vatican, the Pope has showcased more progressive stances during his time leading one of the world's largest religions. When he comes to the Capitol this week, his highly anticipated address will be viewed by millions of Americans, and thousands of tourists are pouring into Washington for a chance to catch a glimpse of the pontiff. House Speaker John Boehner and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, both Catholics, extended the speaking invitation to Francis, who will become the first pontiff ever to address a joint session of Congress. The huge platform gives Pope Francis a major opportunity to help drive the national conversation. What's more, nearly six in 10 Americans have a favorable view of Francis, according to a recent Gallup poll, making him far more popular than President Barack Obama and leaders of Congress.

How aggressive Francis will be in advocating his views to a conservative Congress is an open question. But he has not been afraid to touch on thorny subjects over the last several years, drawing global attention for his stances. In a highly controversial paper released by the Vatican this summer, Francis backed the "very consistent scientific consensus" that climate change is caused by humans, saying it was "urgent" to develop policies to bolster the environment and curtail fossil fuels.

In comments in July, Francis focused on the plight of migrant children, saying governments must move to "protect and assist them," in line with his repeated statements for a compassionate approach to immigration. He has also spoken more tolerantly about gays than previous pontiffs, saying famously, "Who am I to judge?" — a sharp contrast with his predecessor Pope Benedict XVI's hardline on homosexuality. Francis has blasted gun manufacturers, likening them to hypocrites. And in a series of tough speeches, Francis has railed against global capitalism, even calling it a "subtle dictatorship."

Such comments make many Republicans cringe. "I'm always concerned about those who are bringing spiritual messages that step too far over the line in terms of political issues," said Sen. Dan Coats, an Indiana Republican and Presbyterian. "I think it can be dangerous territory because then it gives people reason to make a judgment on say, Billy Graham or the Pope or whoever, on the basis of their political leanings — not on the basis of their spirituality."

And Republican presidential candidate Chris Christie, a Catholic, didn't hold back Sunday from criticizing Pope Francis on his stance on a political issue — his advocacy of closer ties between the United States and Cuba. "I just think the Pope is wrong," the New Jersey governor told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union." "The fact is that his infallibility is on religious matters, not on political ones."

Also in GOP news, Trump's lead has dropped a bit, as Fiorina jumps into second place.

Carly Fiorina shot into second place in the Republican presidential field on the heels of another strong debate performance, and Donald Trump has lost some support, a new national CNN/ORC poll shows. The survey, conducted in the three days after 23 million people tuned in to Wednesday night's GOP debate on CNN, shows that Trump is still the party's front-runner with 24% support. That, though, is an 8 percentage point decrease from earlier in the month when a similar poll had him at 32%.

Fiorina ranks second with 15% support — up from 3% in early September. She's just ahead of Ben Carson's 14%, though Carson's support has also declined from 19% in the previous poll. Driving Trump's drop and Fiorina's rise: a debate in which 31% of Republicans who watched said Trump was the loser, and 52% identified Fiorina as the winner. During the CNN debate, Fiorina clashed with Trump over his personal attacks and their business records and scored points for her condemnation of Planned Parenthood.

The top three contenders underscore a key theme in the 2016 race: In a jampacked GOP presidential field, the leading candidates are the only ones who have never held political office. But one established politician has seen his standing rise after flashing foreign policy chops on the debate stage. Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida — identified as Wednesday's winner by 14% of Republicans, putting him second behind Fiorina — is now in fourth place with 11% support, up from 3% in a previous poll.

In fifth place is former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, at 9%. He's followed by Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee at 6% each, Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky at 4%, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie at 3%, Ohio Gov. John Kasich at 2% and former Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania at 1%. Five other candidates received less than one-half of 1 percentage point support: former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore, Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, former New York Gov. George Pataki and Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker.

Walker's collapse is especially stark. Celebrated by conservatives — in the party's base and its donor class alike — for his union-busting efforts in Wisconsin, Walker at one point led the field in the key early voting state of Iowa. His support had already dropped to 5% in a CNN/ORC poll in early September, but the bottom appears to have fallen out completely since then — with a second flat debate performance coming after criticism of his disparate answers on issues like birthright citizenship.

Carson was a quiet presence in Wednesday's debate, but he remains the most popular candidate in the GOP field, with 65% of Republican voters saying they view him favorably, compared with just 10% saying they have an unfavorable opinion of the retired neurosurgeon. Rubio ranks second in the popularity contest, with 57% viewing him favorably and 16% unfavorably. He's followed by Fiorina (54% favorable to 17% unfavorable), Huckabee (53% to 28% unfavorable), Cruz (52% to 22%) and Trump (52% to 40%).

The biggest positive movement was in favor of Fiorina, whose favorability rating has climbed by 9 percentage points since August. And the biggest drop hit Trump, who shed 6 percentage points in that same period.

But Trump still stands out on the issues. About 44% of likely GOP voters say they see Trump as the candidate who could best handle the economy — well ahead of his nearest competitors: Fiorina at 11%, Rubio at 10% and Bush at 8%. Trump also wins on immigration, with 47% saying he could best address the issue, ahead of second-place Rubio's 15% and Bush's 9%. He even edges Rubio, 22% to 17%, on who could best handle foreign policy.

The poll offered some good overall news for Republicans: 65% of GOP voters said they are either "extremely" or "very" enthusiastic about voting in the 2016 presidential race, compared with 51% of Democrats. The CNN/ORC poll was conducted September 17-19 and surveyed 1,006 adult Americans, including 924 registered voters — 444 of whom are Republicans and independents who lean toward the GOP. The margin of error with the Republican results is plus or minus 4.5 percentage points.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#101459: Sep 21st 2015 at 6:25:16 AM

Glad to see that Walker is likely crashing and burning, he could have been a significant threat in the general.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#101460: Sep 21st 2015 at 6:27:20 AM

Fiorina... another seemingly reasonable voice that spews craziness. That not a single moderate Republican is showing in this race is disturbing, though not unexpected.

Also, go Francis! Give our idiots what for!

I saw that Jim Gaffigan is going to be doing a show that the Pope will be attending. That's got to be intimidating.

edited 21st Sep '15 6:28:24 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#101461: Sep 21st 2015 at 6:27:51 AM

Man I really hope Pope Francis comes and kicks the GOP's ass.

I love that guy.

I mean I know they won't listen but still.

edited 21st Sep '15 6:28:34 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#101462: Sep 21st 2015 at 6:28:41 AM

@ Wanderer: The Oath Keepers and the Authorities are the same people.

Um... no. Yes, the members are ex-military or law enforcement. Yes, their BS motivations may be shared to some degree with the general public or other law enforcement people. No, they are not the authorities or being ignored by law enforcement.

If you think these people aren't on law enforcement's radar and being watched, you're crazy.

In a survey we conducted with the Police Executive Research Forum last year of 382 law enforcement agencies, 74 percent reported anti-government extremism as one of the top three terrorist threats in their jurisdiction; 39 percent listed extremism connected with Al Qaeda or like-minded terrorist organizations. And only 3 percent identified the threat from Muslim extremists as severe, compared with 7 percent for anti-government and other forms of extremism.

The sovereign citizen movement, a far right group which number as many as 300,000 and claims not to recognize the authority of federal or local government, is recognized by the FBI as the "nation's top domestic terrorism threat. " The group, like many on the extreme right, shares a "fear that government will confiscate firearms" and a nihilistic "belief in the approaching collapse of government and the economy."

Yeah, they're not on the average person's radar, and most people dismiss the threat because they instinctually identify these people as part of their in-group and most people are only capable of thinking that a threat can come from outside, but government and law enforcement are certainly not ignorant of the highly armed, trained, (at least in the case of Oath Keepers) and fanatical groups that want to destroy government and specifically target law enforcement.

We may get frustrated that they get cut extra slack by the media and people on the street because they don't have the "wrong" skin tone or "funny sounding" names, (I know I certainly feel that way) but that doesn't mean they're being ignored. And years from now when the Oath Keepers are an obscure footnote in US History, I bet we'll find out that law enforcement had people looking into them, infiltrating them, and probably even agitating them to cross lines and boundaries from the start. You know, just like they have so many times before.

John Matthews had long been a shadowy presence in his son Dan’s life. Every six months it was a new city, a new state, a new apartment. Dan, who lived with his mother, suspected something illegal was going on. He was estranged from his father and even used his stepfather’s last name, Candland. Once, when Dan was 16, Matthews called him from a pay phone to say he was going underground and might appear on the television show America’s Most Wanted one day. Months later, when they reconnected, neither brought it up.

Matthews, who is now 59, recognized how he must have looked to his son: a troubled Vietnam veteran, a paranoid man who wandered between jobs and marriages, despised the government, and always kept a camouflage backpack filled with food, water, and clothing by his bedroom door. “Danny always figured I was trash,” Matthews says. “Or a bad person.”

Now they were outside the federal courthouse in downtown Salt Lake City; Dan, 33, had no idea why. A grizzled man in a Stetson hat smoking a Toscanelli cigar introduced himself as Jesse Trentadue, attorney at law, and led them into his office across the street. There, Matthews divulged the secret he had harbored for two decades: while his family thought he was hiding from the law, palling around with white supremacists and other antigovernment activists, he was working as an informant for the FBI, posing as an extremist to infiltrate more than 20 groups in an effort to thwart terrorist attacks. “[Dan’s] eyes got bigger and bigger,” the lawyer recalls. For Dan, the revelation brought sanity to a childhood of mystery and frustration. Finally, he says, “it all made sense.”

It is rare for an informant to unmask himself, especially one who has found his way into the violent world of heavily armed bigots. But Matthews had developed a fatal lung condition and a drastically weakened heart, and he wanted his family to know his true identity before it was too late. “I ain’t gonna be around for more than a couple of years longer,” he says. “So I figure whatever’s gonna happen is gonna happen.”

Matthews’s story, which Newsweek verified through hundreds of FBI documents and several dozen interviews, including conversations with current and former FBI officials, offers a rare glimpse into the murky world of domestic intelligence, and the bureau’s struggles to combat right-wing extremism.

edited 21st Sep '15 6:29:19 AM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#101463: Sep 21st 2015 at 6:32:12 AM

I think it's totally inappropriate that the Pope is weighing in on all the real sensitive, far-left issues.

The Pope.

Not talking about the real sensitive issues.

What a gimp.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#101465: Sep 21st 2015 at 6:38:19 AM

Yeah, the FBI is really serious about infiltrating and taking down these militia groups.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#101466: Sep 21st 2015 at 6:39:46 AM

It's taking an awful long time. We need them gone sooner than later.

Especially with how the current social and political climate is right now.

Oh really when?
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#101467: Sep 21st 2015 at 6:46:36 AM

The rank hypocrisy of those Republicans asking the Pope not to get too political. He should go Jesus-with-the-moneychangers on their asses. Show 'em what happens when you abuse faith.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#101468: Sep 21st 2015 at 7:17:42 AM

  • GOP: We don't have to listen to the Constitution! There is only one law and that's God's law!
  • POPE: I also think you're being assholes.
  • GOP: We don't have to listen to the Church! You don't control our nation!

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#101469: Sep 21st 2015 at 7:22:48 AM

[up] x9 What about John Kasic?

But yeah, just because you're the Pope doesn't mean you're bound to religion alone, and it does not mean you have to represent the stereotype of Catholics being holier than thou douchebags. The hate conservstive Catholics have of him is pure fear of them being called to task.

edited 21st Sep '15 7:23:25 AM by SciFiSlasher

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#101470: Sep 21st 2015 at 7:30:34 AM

Kasich is so far the only one I'd vote for in a general election. I'd have said the same about Rubio once upon a time, but he has Mc Cain syndrome in that he let's himself be pulled to the right on issues he'd normally be moderate on.

The rest either have no chance or need to never have their hands on power at all.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#101471: Sep 21st 2015 at 7:39:23 AM

Rubio's been a nutbar since he got elected, *except* on immigration.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#101472: Sep 21st 2015 at 8:06:12 AM

I think it's totally inappropriate that the Pope is weighing in on all the real sensitive, far-left issues.

Apparently, common sense is now a far-left thing? :/

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#101473: Sep 21st 2015 at 8:07:29 AM

Anything that doesn't fit their narrative is a machination of the Left.

These people deny reality and facts. To them, truth is subjective.

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#101474: Sep 21st 2015 at 8:08:06 AM

[up][up][up] Indeed. Rubio should not be held as an example of anything good in Republican policy; he's a complete airhead who hides his lack of substance behind a soft-spoken demeanor, and he subscribes to all the nitwit ideological talking points except "kick out the Mexicans".

edited 21st Sep '15 8:08:16 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#101475: Sep 21st 2015 at 8:09:58 AM

Hence what I meant about the Mc Cain syndrome. I had heard he used to be more moderate on other issues before he entered the Senate, but in order to become the Republican Obama, he's basically followed the party line.


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