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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#101401: Sep 20th 2015 at 12:36:01 PM

Ah, the old constitution card. Well if you want to be super anal about this we might as well disqualify all religious people. After all, Separation of Church and State is enshrined in the Constitution and following a religion means you'd be subservient to a higher power.
Nah, that wouldn't work, even as smart-ass rules-lawyering. If you're gonna make religious folks ineligible for office you're violating the rule against having a religious test.

They didn't do too bad, until a certain fat Italian started having dellusions of grandeur, invaded Ethiopia and cast his lot in with mustache man.
Eh, the "fascist" part of "fascist Italy" is kind of a dealbreaker for me.

edited 20th Sep '15 12:37:07 PM by rikalous

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#101402: Sep 20th 2015 at 12:37:30 PM

Now you're assuming they actually know what the Constitution says.

Oh really when?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#101403: Sep 20th 2015 at 12:38:06 PM

[up][up]Which part of the constitution says there shouldn't be a religious test for office?

edited 20th Sep '15 12:38:25 PM by Kostya

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#101404: Sep 20th 2015 at 12:39:55 PM

Article VI, Paragraph 3.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#101405: Sep 20th 2015 at 12:43:29 PM

I never knew that was specifically stated in the constitution. I always thought it was just implicitly understand due to the Separation of Church and State clause.

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#101406: Sep 20th 2015 at 12:44:01 PM

[up][up]One could argue that that applies only to the original thirteen states. They should probably fix some of the wording in the Constitution.

edited 20th Sep '15 12:47:03 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#101407: Sep 20th 2015 at 12:45:08 PM

"Technically" he's not saying that Muslims should be banned from the presidency.

Rather, his argument is that Islam is inherently against American values and so any candidate who is a Muslim will by virtue of that religion be someone who is unqualified for the presidency.

Although it seems odd given the above that Carson is potentially ok with Muslim members of Congress and the Senate, depending on their other policies.

If I had to guess, I think Carson thinks that President Obama is Muslim or is dogwhistling to that effect, and so since he doesn't like Obama, he doesn't want there to be a Muslim president. Since Carson doesn't really know or care about American Muslims running for lower offices, he's more ok with that.

[up] No?

edited 20th Sep '15 12:45:52 PM by Hodor2

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#101408: Sep 20th 2015 at 12:45:10 PM

It doesn't really matter. The "Constitution" is just some nebulous idea that Republicans use to denounce anything and anyone they don't like.

Nothing more than a set of goalposts they can constantly move.

Oh really when?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#101410: Sep 20th 2015 at 12:53:05 PM

I'm guessing it's the "several states" bit. But nothing there implies that refers only to the original 13. More importantly, the Constitution also says the rights of news states are the same all the ones than came before them, and that includes freedom from religious tests for federal offices.

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#101411: Sep 20th 2015 at 12:55:30 PM

It doesn't really help that the wording in the Constitution leaves it vague and up to interpretation.

edited 20th Sep '15 12:57:51 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#101412: Sep 20th 2015 at 12:57:27 PM

Pretty sure the supreme court would put the kibosh on any attempts to add religious tests in say... Texas.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#101413: Sep 20th 2015 at 12:57:40 PM

I'm curious as to how you get "Only the first 13" out of it.

rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#101414: Sep 20th 2015 at 12:58:30 PM

Updates on that article. The Council on American-Islam Relations is gonna have a press conference on Monday asking Carson to drop out of the race. The "and go fuck himself" part will presumably remain politely unstated.

“Mr. Carson clearly does not understand or care about the Constitution, which states that ‘no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office,’” said CAIR National Executive Director Nihad Awad. “We call on our nation’s political leaders – across the political spectrum - to repudiate these unconstitutional and un-American statements and for Mr. Carson to withdraw from the presidential race.”

Rep. Keith Ellison has weighed in.

Rather, his argument is that Islam is inherently against American values and so any candidate who is a Muslim will by virtue of that religion be someone who is unqualified for the presidency.
One of my American values, as enshrined in the constitution, is freedom of religion. Apparently Mr. Carson does not share it. Why does he hate America and our freedoms?

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#101415: Sep 20th 2015 at 12:59:07 PM

By joining the United States the other 37 agreed to place themselves under its rules and constitution. What applies for the original 13 applies for all of them.

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#101416: Sep 20th 2015 at 1:00:35 PM

[up][up]You know its bad when CAIR(My opinion of them is best left unsaid) of all groups is taking the moral high ground. But they have no right to order Carson to withdraw from the race.

edited 20th Sep '15 1:04:14 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#101417: Sep 20th 2015 at 1:01:09 PM

Hence why Kentucky ran afoul of the full faith and credit clause recently.

Is that lady back in jail again?

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#101418: Sep 20th 2015 at 1:02:51 PM

Davis? No, she's got Oath Keepers protecting her from any Feds coming to arrest her.

They try and we have a domestic insurgency.

edited 20th Sep '15 1:03:02 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#101419: Sep 20th 2015 at 1:03:45 PM

One that ends with a couple of wingnuts dead and the FBI having to clean some Carbon out of a few dozen of their rifles.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#101420: Sep 20th 2015 at 1:04:49 PM

The Oath Keepers aren't a few dozen nuts.

They're combat hardened domestic terrorists with cells in every state and substantial popular support.

They're professionals and are not to be written off.

Oh really when?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#101422: Sep 20th 2015 at 1:06:52 PM

At the same time we can't just let the Oathkeepers do whatever they want. Eventually their demands are going to get even more ridiculous.

rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#101423: Sep 20th 2015 at 1:07:56 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention my favorite argument against the "Muslims are un-American" thing. The Treaty of Tripoli, unanimously ratified under John Adams, which states

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
So we are officially cool with not only Muslims (Mahometans) but our bivalve brethren (Mussulmen).

But they have no right to order Carson to withdraw from the race.
They got a right to state their opinion that he's an asshole and shouldn't have a shot at the presidency, same as anyone on anyone.

edited 20th Sep '15 1:08:08 PM by rikalous

Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#101424: Sep 20th 2015 at 1:08:09 PM

[up]X4 The number who would actually pull the trigger is much lower than the actual membership.

edited 20th Sep '15 1:09:43 PM by Canid117

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#101425: Sep 20th 2015 at 1:08:33 PM

[up][up][up]Yep.

Basically we let them fester for too long and now there's no possibility of fixing this without some kind of tragedy.

edited 20th Sep '15 1:08:49 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?

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