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BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#100826: Sep 15th 2015 at 11:29:28 PM

There are lots of firsts in life: first steps, first date, first kiss, first chocolate cheesecake, first criminal violation... apparently one of those places the Mark of the Beast upon you, making you fair game to be shot down by a vigilante citizen.
It's the first chocolate cheesecake, isn't it?

Should the gun control debate move to the gun thread? It's not one I follow so I don't know.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#100827: Sep 16th 2015 at 1:29:46 AM

Castle Law is simply Stand Your Ground inside your own home. If you reasonably believe that someone who is in your home is a threat to your person, you are cleared to use deadly force and have no duty to retreat. It's a fairly coherent law assuming rational people, but as we know, people can't be assumed to be rational.

Still, I really wouldn't be a sympathetic juror if a burglar suffered injury or death "on the job."

Regarding gun ownership in general, I'm in favor of background checks, waiting periods, tracking, and mandatory training before you get your first gun, but I also favor shall-issue concealed carry permits. People with concealed carry permits, by and large, are not the problem. As for long guns, I live in Alaska. In rural Alaska, a house without a gun is underequipped - partly because subsistence hunting makes up a pretty big share of the diet out in the bush. So you're not going to hear me object to people keeping long guns in their homes out there. grin

edited 16th Sep '15 1:30:10 AM by Ramidel

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#100828: Sep 16th 2015 at 5:28:01 AM

The thing about "shall-issue" is that if everyone can get a concealed carry permit for asking, you lose any purported benefit of assigning them to responsible gun owners.

Also, I have always admitted the need to exempt frontiersmen, ranchers, subsistence hunters, and the like from a ban on personal ownership of firearms, because their lifestyle makes guns a genuine necessity. Of course, they don't need machine guns and bunkers full of ammunition, either. As you noted, a long rifle and a shotgun or two will do just fine. Even handguns aren't very helpful in that environment.

edited 16th Sep '15 6:13:00 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#100829: Sep 16th 2015 at 6:06:27 AM

Why is it that people jump to conclusions when people say they want to defend themselves? They're just saying that if you try to rob them, they're not gonna have any mercy on you. Doesn't mean they're a psychopath out for the blood of innocents (which criminals are not).

Furthermore, maybe this should go to the Psychology thread instead, but-why be so sympathetic to criminals? Because at some point, people do cross the Moral Event Horizon and it becomes that much harder to pity them, no matter what might have pushed them towards their lifestyle.

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#100830: Sep 16th 2015 at 6:09:19 AM

Because 90% of the time they are. Especially when there are far more effective ways to defend yourself and protect your property that don't involve bloodshed.

Add that to the fact that there's a very large and very deliberate cultural movement in the country to make sure criminals aren't seen as sympathetic so they have no qualms about shooting minorities in the back of the head.

Anyone who brags about carrying a gun isn't interested in their own safety, they just wanna play cowboy.

edited 16th Sep '15 6:10:00 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#100831: Sep 16th 2015 at 6:13:09 AM

[up]I don't know where to begin. Except: "psychopath" isn't a diagnosis anymore for a lot of very good reasons. <_< Turns out, confusing environmental and developmental factors for ingrained personality traits? Bad science.

Antisocial personality disorder is highly nuanced, and you'll find quite a lot of people have it.

But, the way you talk, criminals = psychopaths = untreatable. Which is rubbish. Only a minority of the criminal population is untreatable — a lot go untreated, but that's another can of worms. <_<

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#100832: Sep 16th 2015 at 6:14:10 AM

[up][up]Indeed. It has become a cultural meme that is barely questioned: commit a crime and you become prey for the Great American Vigilante Gun Owner.

[up][up][up] Under no circumstances except in immediate fear for your life do you gain the right to take the life of another human being outside a court of law and judicial due process. That is the foundation of our justice system and is enshrined in our constitution. It doesn't matter who or what that person may have done or be doing; unless they are actually trying to kill you, you can't kill them preemptively.

edited 16th Sep '15 6:16:59 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#100833: Sep 16th 2015 at 6:19:57 AM

[up][up]He wasn't talking about the criminals; he was talking about the people who are so eager to shot them because they don't see them as human beings.

Your point might still be valid, though.

edited 16th Sep '15 6:21:18 AM by LSBK

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#100834: Sep 16th 2015 at 6:29:16 AM

I think there's an arrow missing is all

Oh really when?
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#100835: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:08:04 AM

One of the other side effects of this the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground is that minorities end up getting shot for such things as 'Knocking on a door for help after a fender bender' and 'Playing their music too loud in their own car in a gas station and not interacting with the person who shot them.'

There needs to be a test before you let people have guns just like there is before you let them drive cars.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#100836: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:10:45 AM

Indeed. Heck, I'd be happy with a mandatory exam to obtain any sort of firearm license, requiring a demonstration of proficiency as well as knowledge of safety rules, with the license having to be renewed every five years or so. Exactly like automobiles, in fact.

edited 16th Sep '15 7:11:13 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#100837: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:14:14 AM

[up][up]Generalization much?

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#100838: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:16:10 AM

[up] Those exact things have actually happened. Pay attention.

edited 16th Sep '15 7:16:32 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#100839: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:18:09 AM

So because of a few isolated incidents, all gun owners are violent racists.

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#100840: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:20:41 AM

Okay, I'm just saying-would you feel any sympathy towards somebody like Pedro Lopez, Yang Xinhai, or Jeffrey Dahmer? I know that the former two are not American, but they are incredibly prolific and brutal killers and I don't see how you could feel any sympathy for them in light of what they did.

Sorry for the derailment.

EDIT: [up] Basically what people think.

edited 16th Sep '15 7:21:07 AM by SciFiSlasher

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#100841: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:20:42 AM

[up][up]They're not isolated incidents. And not all gun owners are racists.

The Stand Your Ground Laws are.

[up]Those people are wholly incomparable to your average petty thief, there's no reason to bring them up.

edited 16th Sep '15 7:22:08 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#100842: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:21:18 AM

[up][up][up]No, but enough are to make controls on the behavior of gun owners entirely reasonable and necessary. Hell, you yourself have effectively declared criminals to be animals who forfeit their due process rights. That's exactly the problem.

[up][up] That makes no sense. And even those people got due process, because our justice system demands that everyone get the opportunity to be found not guilty in a fair trial. Some guy trying to feed his kids or get money to buy drugs that he became addicted to as a poverty-stricken teenager is not comparable to Jeffrey Dahmer, anyway.

edited 16th Sep '15 7:24:13 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#100843: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:21:28 AM

Would you risk death to go up an knock on a door or drive up to a gas station? Just simply asking the question is enough to say hell no.

The laws are stupid because people view skin color as a threat thus 'justified'. That type of racial profiling is the problem that is at the root of almost all the current issues really, those who practice it need to be jailed themselves.

edited 16th Sep '15 7:25:56 AM by Memers

Mopman43 Since: Nov, 2013
#100844: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:21:58 AM

[up][up][up][up]Well, those are the extreme minority of violent crime.

edited 16th Sep '15 7:22:40 AM by Mopman43

Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#100845: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:23:46 AM

They're not a few and they are worth merit in preventing.

As a gun owner, I am all for testing. I am all for licensing just like how we issue licenses to hunt here.

I also am very opposed to open carry.

NOTE: As someone who grew up on a farm, there is a big difference between carrying a rifle on the back of the four wheeler while you check fence lines and then strapping an AR on your back to go pick up a gallon of milk.

The former is good. The latter is batshit and needs to be destroyed.

I'm all for concealed carry because again, you have to provide education and pass a test to get it. No problem with me there. Conceal carry to your hearts content except if the private property has said no guns. Your rights end where theirs begins.

I support reasonable policies to try and help people make good choices and have better education. Like I would love to see sensitivity training and situation awareness mandated for both hunting and carrying permits. Some have that built in already, but I think that should be stock and default.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Mopman43 Since: Nov, 2013
#100846: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:27:13 AM

Though, a point that has to be brought up is, in the majority of gun deaths, the one dying is the one pulling the trigger. Which is exactly the sort of problem we need qualified counseling to solve. We need more of a support net for those who feel clinically depressed.

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#100847: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:30:24 AM

[up]x5 Some criminals are animals: Rapists, Murderers. Child molesters...

I have no sympathy for any of them.

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#100848: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:31:58 AM

[up] Except that is not true at all, and your belief that it is indicates that you should definitely not be carrying around a weapon for "self-defense".

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#100849: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:32:55 AM

[up][up][up] Not just counselling, but gun safety classes. There's a huge number of accidental self inflicted gunshot wounds and accidental shootings. Education and testing would eliminate a lot of those.

That said, we really need to de-stigmatise mental illness, especially for men, and we need more money into treatment.

edited 16th Sep '15 7:33:26 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#100850: Sep 16th 2015 at 7:33:16 AM

[up][up]I don't carry it with me, I usually keep it in the closet, unloaded.

edited 16th Sep '15 7:35:00 AM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.

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