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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Angelus Nox: Continuing a previous conversation, there are certainly parts of the United States (and other countries) where going unarmed outside your home is an invitation to become a victim of crime, but the cause of that situation is not the availability or lack of weapons, but rather economic and political inequality. Solve those and you'd solve the need for the weapons.
Also, I should point out that going armed in those environments is usually the quickest way to get targeted by police for "enhanced law enforcement", meaning beatings, false imprisonment, and sometimes outright murder. That applies in the U.S. as well as elsewhere.
In none of these situations will carrying solve the underlying problems, even if it may add a modicum of personal safety under certain circumstances.
edited 15th Sep '15 2:09:03 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
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Er, no. I'm not sure how many criminals you've interviewed, but almost every crime has a proximate motive. Those can vary widely, but poverty and inequality are big indicators. They are also indicators for the proximate factors, such as drug use and family instability.
The core motives for the vast majority of crimes are money and anger, with mental illness as a distant third or fourth. Sex is another, but I'd wager you are not speaking from the perspective of a female carrying a weapon to defend herself against rape.
edited 15th Sep '15 2:29:01 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"You sound like a person who really needs to do some independent research to understand what they are talking about. Criminals are not archetypal forces of chaos and evil; they are mainly ordinary people who have been forced to make difficult choices, or who made one or two poor choices that locked them into a destructive path.
Even in the case of the drug-addled teen who knifes you for his latest fix, he got that way somehow. He didn't come out of the womb as a petty killer. Treating them as things is exactly the mentality that leads to our fixation on guns as the solution to crime.
edited 15th Sep '15 2:38:33 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Criminals don't do anything for no reason. That's some Hollywood bullshit.
Furthermore, that's exactly the line of thinking that leads to minorities getting shot in the back of the head. They're not sympathetic human beings in a bad situation, they're criminals with no motive or sense of human morality.
Don't buy into it.
Oh really when?There are lots of firsts in life: first steps, first date, first kiss, first chocolate cheesecake, first criminal violation... apparently one of those places the Mark of the Beast upon you, making you fair game to be shot down by a vigilante citizen. I am quite certain that at some point in my life I did something that could have generated a criminal charge. Am I now to be stripped of my due process rights because you felt threatened by me?
The reason we have a justice system is precisely because ordinary people are not permitted to decide who is guilty of a crime and administer summary punishment.
edited 15th Sep '15 2:52:49 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I blame Batman. Its constant assertion that criminals are like the Joker, absurd bowls of evil and darkness "because shut up". And its constant failure to argue Batman's point with any intelligence. There are countless of good arguments on why Batman shouldn't kill. But I'm yet to see a Batman story that explores at least one.
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Only if you try to assault or rob me, or break into my house, and I happen to own a gun, I won't have any sympathy when I drop you where you stand pilgrim.
Batman is awesome, well except for Nu52, I like his pre-52 incarnation better.
edited 15th Sep '15 3:02:02 PM by Skycobra51
Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.And that, ladies and gentleman, is why gun culture is a problem in America.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
I just watched a string of John Wayne films. so yeah...
But in all seriousness, If I'm about to be robbed or someone breaks into my house, and it comes down to my life/my family's lives or his, I'm gonna choose mine. Plus, there ain't no way in hell I'm gonna let you run off with my wallet/phone or walk out that door or window with my TV or Xbox.
edited 15th Sep '15 3:09:03 PM by Skycobra51
Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.Nearly all robbers have no intention of harming anyone. They're just desperate people in need and have no intention of escalating to violence - but will defend themselves if the target escalates. When a mugger or robber shoots someone, it's usually because that person lunged at them.
Not to mention that house robberies are super-rare. If someone's going to walk out the door with your TV or Xbox, he's trying to do it when you're not home. Burglars rarely stick around once caught red-handed.
Similarly, a lot of break-ins are just homeless people looking for a place to crash. By all means, call the police, kick them out, etc. but there's no reason to start murdering folks.
In all of the scenarios you've described, the only person in any danger of killing someone without due cause is you. It really shouldn't count as self-defense if your life was never in danger to begin with.
edited 15th Sep '15 3:11:59 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.The point stands, you break into my house, and all bets are off.
Yeah in and out and never come back, that's why the jerk who robbed my Aunt came back to her house twice, once to steal her money jar, and the second to steal her grandmothers jewelry.
In the same day.
edited 15th Sep '15 3:16:58 PM by Skycobra51
Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.Why not kick them out at gun point? Or use the possibility of the gun as some sort of deterrent in the first place? A criminal isn't going to rob a house they know has a gun owner inside. They'll move on and rob someone else, and nobody will get hurt.
I have very little sympathy for burglars who get shot from an ethical standpoint, though I can see why from a societal standpoint shooting burglars might pose problems.
Leviticus 19:34

Fighteer: Thanks.