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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#100726: Sep 15th 2015 at 8:04:38 AM

I'm more concerned with the guy walking into Target with a concealed Glock who thinks he is Batman. Knives, whatever, it's the same deal. If you are armed, you are more inclined by psychology to use force to solve a problem.

@Bonsai: I'm sure that billboard will have interesting results.

edited 15th Sep '15 8:07:08 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#100727: Sep 15th 2015 at 8:13:49 AM

[up][up]Confirmation Bias isn't that at all. I'm referring instead to how people will use any justification they can, regardless of if it's good or not, to justify their beliefs. Confirmation Bias, as the article you linked to states, is instead people ignoring evidence against their beliefs and jumping for evidence in favor.

[up]I think that, just like other arguments aimed at Christianity, the billboard will be largely ignored and they'll find reasons to continue to think the way they do. For the most part. May plant a seed in some people's minds, but I imagine very few. Also, some clown may tear it down, as has happened to atheist billboards in the past from what I'd read.

edited 15th Sep '15 8:16:07 AM by BonsaiForest

DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#100728: Sep 15th 2015 at 8:20:00 AM

That does strike me as basically just being an extreme type of confirmation bias. It's selecting evidence in a biased way to support your pre-existing views. The bias here manifesting in ignoring that the evidence doesn't make sense and sticking to it purely because it supports your opinion.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#100729: Sep 15th 2015 at 8:22:03 AM

I'm more concerned with the guy walking into Target with a concealed Glock who thinks he is Batman.
How many shootings are caused by overethusaistic bystanders? Serious question — I don't know the answer. But I'm willing to be it's "not many".

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#100730: Sep 15th 2015 at 9:02:42 AM

I don't think Fighteer's talking about people with guns trying to commit crimes. He's talking about the ones that carry a gun so they can stop potential shootings. One shooter is bad enough but multiple untrained civilians responding is worse. It increases the number of bullets flying and makes it impossible for the actual police to figure out who they should and shouldn't shoot.

edited 15th Sep '15 9:03:02 AM by Kostya

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#100731: Sep 15th 2015 at 9:06:14 AM

I carry at least one knife and a switchblade with me all the time because I can't get a license where I live yet only my close friends know about that, yet I got close of having to use them.

I'd just add, that would be illegal in the UK. Switchblades are themselves illegal and carrying knives is likely a cause for someone to be arrested.

Keep Rolling On
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#100732: Sep 15th 2015 at 9:11:00 AM

[up]They aren't illegal where I live (yet), but my previous line of work has some good uses for them and I do out of habit since it's been 12 years I always had at least one on me.

Inter arma enim silent leges
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#100733: Sep 15th 2015 at 9:36:16 AM

@DrDougsh: I see. Good point. It might indeed be a form of that.

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#100734: Sep 15th 2015 at 9:36:48 AM

For defensive purposes, it doesn't make a lot of sense to carry around knives. Get some self-defense training or carry around some pepper spray. Do you really want to hinge your personal safety against theoretical threats on the possibility of you stabbing someone?

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#100735: Sep 15th 2015 at 9:38:03 AM

Many people who carry a gun around for self-defense imagine that they are capable of stopping a crime and saving the police the effort. The problem is that they are not trained to detect crime, intervene without escalating the situation, safely apprehend suspects, know when deadly force is called for, and so on. Hell, they are lucky if they can hit a wall at twenty paces.

Caveats: it is possible that they are trained in those things, but there's no way to tell in advance; and it seems that police may not always be properly trained in them either. But it's about probabilities and likelihoods. You are more likely to escalate a situation by pulling out a gun than not.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#100736: Sep 15th 2015 at 9:40:56 AM

So what would everyone like to see in gun control? A complete ban and confiscation of all firearms of any sort and a disbandment of the Second Amendment? A ban on assault weapons or hand guns? Stricter background checks?

edited 15th Sep '15 9:41:05 AM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#100737: Sep 15th 2015 at 9:41:32 AM

[up][up]

I'm not sure that's the case. I mean, what if the person is or was a police officer? Or former military? There's no reason to think a person with that kind of training couldn't be just as competent (or more competent) than the police.

edited 15th Sep '15 9:41:44 AM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#100738: Sep 15th 2015 at 9:42:35 AM

Alabama revises teaching standards for evolution in schools. While stupid disclaimers are still required, overall it's a definite improvement that will result in science actually being taught in science classes.

For the first time since 2005, Alabama is updating its science standards, which previously said students “should understand the nature of evolutionary theories,” but did not actually require such an understanding. This of course, doesn’t mean that Alabama is quite ready to join the rest of us in the 21st century, however:

“Educators say the new rules — part of a major change that includes more experimentation and hands-on instruction and less lecturing — don’t require that students believe in evolution or accept the idea that climate is changing globally.

But public school students will be required for the first time to understand the theory of evolution. And teachers will be required to address climate change, which wasn’t a focus the last time the state set science standards in 2005.”

The new standards, which were developed by a 40-member committee that included people with “very strong religious beliefs” who worked together with more rational people to develop the new guidelines, according to Michal Robinson, a science specialist for the state education agency.

“We still have to teach what the science is,” Robinson said Friday. “If students want to go into a science field in college or beyond, they have to have a foundation.”

A lot more at the link, including many more details and the usual comments section screenshots from people screaming hysterically about literal biblical creationism not being the platinum standard.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#100739: Sep 15th 2015 at 9:42:50 AM

[up][up]I have a hard time believing most of these people with giant rifles on their backs are former police officers.

edit: If we have to let this happen we could always institute some kind of mandatory training program. If these people want to play cop then make sure they have some basic skills before they can carry guns.

edited 15th Sep '15 9:43:44 AM by Kostya

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#100740: Sep 15th 2015 at 9:46:23 AM

@Jack: Are you asking about a perfectly ideal world or a practical one?

In a perfectly ideal world, private ownership of firearms would be abolished except for specific cases, such as rural properties where it is necessary to deter wild animals predating on your livestock. Shooting for recreation and/or hunting would be allowed, of course, as long as you visit a licensed range/preserve, check out a weapon, and return it when you are done. Employees of security firms would be licensed to carry on an as-needed basis and would be required to return their weapons at the ends of their shifts.

You'll note that I called that "ideal". Practically, there are too many guns out there to ever get them all out of private hands, so I would settle for bans on concealed carry permits, mandatory background checks and waiting periods for all gun sales, a ban of private (individual to individual) sales, and of course a massive funding increase towards preventative mental healthcare.

@Protagonist: But I, as a guy walking around on the street, have no way to know if that dude toting a Glock or an AK or whatever is a nutball who's going to blow my balls off if I look at him funny or an ex-Marine... who might also be crazy. Put 'em in a uniform, give 'em a badge, and then at least I know whom I'm supposed to trust.

edited 15th Sep '15 9:47:59 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#100741: Sep 15th 2015 at 9:52:38 AM

[up] Would you say that the sale of knives needs to be controlled in the US as well?

Keep Rolling On
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#100742: Sep 15th 2015 at 9:54:32 AM

I would say that it's a secondary issue. People will always find ways to use weapons against each other and there is no way to prevent that before the singularity. It takes a lot more effort to kill a bunch of people with a knife. That said, pulling one out of your pocket in a confrontation is scary as hell and really should be illegal. Self-defense is a tricky claim to prove.

edited 15th Sep '15 9:55:03 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#100743: Sep 15th 2015 at 9:56:01 AM

Pepper spray isn't easy to come by where I live and going into fist fights isn't much better either.

The idea of carrying a knife or a gun isn't to go vigilante to stop a crime you're witnessing or act like a cop, it is to provide self defense in case crime or violence are inflicted upon on you.

I carry a knife because I see it as a tool both for practical uses and self defense and because I don't have any better options. In once particular case it was pretty damn useful to scare away a guy who was really insistent on trying to use my cellphone to check the time.

[up]Under 5 meters having a knife is way more dangerous than having a gun and unlike guns they don't make noise.

Besides the US problem with guns is gang violence and drug related crimes, not the average gun owner.

edited 15th Sep '15 9:58:07 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#100744: Sep 15th 2015 at 9:58:51 AM

I know that long knives and switchblades and the like are illegal in many jurisdictions. The reason it's not a national issue is because the NRA and freedom-loving redneck militias aren't making a big stink over it.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#100745: Sep 15th 2015 at 10:05:18 AM

Quick question and a comment.

First, how many of you have applied for and/or have a CCW license?

Secondly, "ex-marine" is considered a pejorative term in many Marine Corps circles because it implies that you were dishonorably discharged. "Former marine" or "retired marine" are considered more appropriate terms. This is important to note because a dishonorable discharge often prevents a former service member from purchasing a firearm. You'll see a variation of this note in the FFL form you have to fill out before validating the purchase.

edited 15th Sep '15 10:14:29 AM by Aprilla

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#100746: Sep 15th 2015 at 10:11:48 AM

Alabama actually teaching what scientists believe as being "just" what scientists believe, as long as they explain why, is fine by me. When being exposed to multiple points of view, provided they're given the actual evidence for each, people can at least make up their own mind.

After all, I think school should teach people how to think, not what to think.

edited 15th Sep '15 10:21:33 AM by BonsaiForest

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#100747: Sep 15th 2015 at 10:14:19 AM

[up][up]I applied to have a carry license last year but since I don't have the money to join a firing club to justify probable cause nor own property (specially in the rural area) and I couldn't travel at to the office to fill in the paper work.

I'm not an American citizen so my standards to carry are much more strict and limited compared to the US.

edited 15th Sep '15 10:37:22 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#100748: Sep 15th 2015 at 10:30:15 AM

You can buy pepper spray off of Amazon for pocket change. Unarmed self-defense training really would be ideal, but I can understand that some people won't have the time, finances or local resources to get that kind of training. But you do have other options, and trying to claim that you're not safe without a knife strikes me as a cheap excuse.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#100749: Sep 15th 2015 at 10:34:53 AM

@Fighteer:

From a criminal's perspective, though, that would just mean that anyone without a badge is fair game.

Personally, though, I don't think police should be allowed to carry weapons that civilians aren't.

Leviticus 19:34
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#100750: Sep 15th 2015 at 10:36:38 AM

The criminals think that anyway. A criminal actually planning a violent crime on that level is always mentally and physically more prepared to fight than an average person, and thus most likely will win.


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