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Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#100101: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:21:13 AM

The perfect ideal for the law's treatment of sex is one of those things that I feel is very complicated to tell what it 'should' be until society as a whole gets to a more mature stance on the subject. And that's not going to happen until we fix the economy, so people have enough comfortable leisure time to stop regressing into social conservatism.

But regardless of the ideal, almost anything is better than the current status quo. And making allowances for minimal age disparities is a pretty common sense quick fix. A 50 year old sleeping with a 14 year old and a 16 year old sleeping with a 14 year old should not be seen as the same in the eyes of the law.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#100102: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:21:53 AM

It's a very interesting battle right now between the rich sociopaths that make up the Establishment Republicans and Trump. Trump of course appealing to the deeply impoverished conservative base and all their cross burning and genocidal lunacy.

Or rather it would be interesting if it wasn't actively destroying the country.

Oh really when?
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#100103: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:22:24 AM

That doesn't change the fact that it's real fucking sketchy

14 is also the age at which you can be held accountable for crimes in my country, so it seems fair, in my opinion.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#100104: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:23:12 AM

In clinical terms, at least, we look for a 5 year old difference between people who are 18+ or less. So technically even a 21 year old with a 16 year old could be problematic.

IMO that needs to be reworked a bit but it all depends on so many situations that law, which is a blanket statement, could harm more than help...

Also. Trump's funny. Cray cray funny. I hope he makes it past the primaries so everyone slaps him in the face and I wonder who he will blame then.

edited 8th Sep '15 8:24:02 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#100105: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:24:02 AM

The maturity gap between a 14 year old and a 30 year old is still huge. Heck, I think 20 and 30 is too big of a gap given the relative maturity levels of the parties involved.

[up]I think 21 and 16 is a bit too big of a gap.

edited 8th Sep '15 8:24:35 AM by Kostya

BAFFU Since: Dec, 2012
#100106: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:24:29 AM

someone should make an age of consent thread.

Because this thread is off topic.

[up] I actually don't think so.

edited 8th Sep '15 8:25:04 AM by BAFFU

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#100107: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:27:05 AM

Frankly if you're younger than about 18 but really 20 you're an idiot. You don't have the life experiences to be able to detect predatory behavior and you're still run by hormones and don't know any better.

Any 20 year old dating a 16 year old is a fucking predator. There is no debate about this.

Oh really when?
BAFFU Since: Dec, 2012
#100108: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:30:24 AM

yes there is.

you shouldn't remove agency of minors just because they are minors.

Same can happen at 18 or 20.

Also parents have a legal right to order the children to stop any relationship under the age of 18 in almost all jurisdictions age of consent regardless.

Americans have a particular puritan strain of though when it comes to human sexuality and believe that boys and girls under 18 are somewhat mentally impaired and cant form judgment about consent.

edited 8th Sep '15 8:30:39 AM by BAFFU

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#100109: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:31:45 AM

No, they're just too young to realize when they're being taken advantage of.

That's just something you don't understand at 16. But that is something you understand at 20.

And when you're that old you don't go out and try to date someone that young unless you're taking advantage of their young age and lack of wisdom.

They are predators. The end.

edited 8th Sep '15 8:34:18 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#100110: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:31:55 AM

[up][up][up]Would you say the same thing about a freshmen dating a senior in high school? The age difference is going to be the same. If they date for a year or two they'll actually be those ages.

edited 8th Sep '15 8:32:09 AM by Kostya

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#100111: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:32:02 AM

Whereas I think it depends on a lot of thinks. Maturity and experiences are often a thing that vary too much by person, and a blanket statement by the law would hardly take those into account. As a general rule, yeah, it is very likely that a 21 year old with a 16 year old is an eyebrow raising thing, but.

But.

There are also cases where it could, and has, worked.

The law gets very muddy in this subject, but it still does not correct the issue (or the most important one, IMO). it happens in my country too. The puritanical forces that get their claws in the educational system forbid any sort of proper sexual education so whatever negative problems only gets exacerbated, and all the more tragic.

edited 8th Sep '15 8:33:10 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#100112: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:32:17 AM

Oh there's plenty of debate about it! That's why people are still talking about it.

But it's not as big a topic these days as things like immigration or religious freedom.

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#100113: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:35:01 AM

[up][up][up]Frankly yeah. The actual age gap itself isn't the issue. It's the age of the younger party. A senior in high school is usually 17 or 18. A freshman is 13 or 14.

You think a 13 year old knows when they're being used? And do you think a 17 year old doesn't know how to use someone?

Oh really when?
BAFFU Since: Dec, 2012
#100114: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:37:30 AM

I've once had sex with a 20 year old woman when I was 17. Luckily I was abroad because this would have been statutory rape in many jurisdictions in the U.S.

In highschool when I lived in Japan one of the girls I studied with was 16 and fell in love with a 22 year old surfer. She was really into him. Should her boyfriend been prosecuted and registered as a sex offender?

I don't know about you but 16 and 17 year old girls tend to be light years away from their childish and immature male counterparts. They will almost always seek out older man to form a relationship with.

In the U.S there are a set of social and legal rules that impose extreme punishment so this behaviours are curtailed, but step foot abroad and you will see that the spectrum of human sexuality cant be so easily categorized once the body of a woman and a man are sufficiently developed to carry out reproduction.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#100115: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:38:32 AM

Discussion about the age of consent in general needs its own thread, I'd say.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#100116: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:38:56 AM

[up][up]You really think 16 year old girls are into 22 year old men because they're more mature or because those 22 year old men have been around the block long enough to be able to groom someone?

[up]Quite right, this is getting way off topic.

edited 8th Sep '15 8:39:18 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#100117: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:38:57 AM

I never said they weren't. I just think it's wrong to call people pedophiles for dating someone that could easily be in the same social circle.

[up]I've had a 20 year old tell me she dates men 25 and up because they're more mature. It wouldn't surprise me if someone that was 16 or 17 did the same thing with guys that are 20.

edited 8th Sep '15 8:40:09 AM by Kostya

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#100118: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:39:29 AM

I am now wondering if minors masturbating count as child abuse.
Given the kind of Zero Tolerance laws written about child abuse, I would not be surprised if the legal answer was yes.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
BAFFU Since: Dec, 2012
#100119: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:39:53 AM

Also the law cant protect everybody.

Many women and men will be psychologically abused and taken care off and this acts will be legal.

Certain misery and suffering can't be regulated out of the human experience.

If there is consent one must face the consequences, even if one's consent is determined by one's lack of experience *cue to Romeo and Juliet.

edited 8th Sep '15 8:40:38 AM by BAFFU

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#100120: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:40:17 AM

[up][up][up]Most rape happens to people who know each other. And that's a 20 year old saying that. Not a 16 year old girl.

Again, the actual numerical difference in age is not the issue. It is the age of the youngest party that is the problem.

edited 8th Sep '15 8:41:20 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
BAFFU Since: Dec, 2012
#100121: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:41:53 AM

so should we take away consent from people who have low IQ because someone with higher IQ might take advantage.

what would be the numerical IQ difference?

edited 8th Sep '15 8:42:41 AM by BAFFU

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#100122: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:43:41 AM

[up][up]What does that have to do with anything? We're discussing age of consent which only matters in cases of statutory rape.

You keep going on about the age of the youngest party. So to you a 14 year old shouldn't have sex period regardless of whether or not the other person is 16 or 18?

edited 8th Sep '15 8:44:51 AM by Kostya

BAFFU Since: Dec, 2012
#100123: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:45:49 AM

[nja]it matters because the logic behind statutory rape laws are either:

1. Minors and incapable of providing informed consent and thus lack agency (just like an animal)

or

2. Even if consent is given, it is still a form of abuse because on of the parties possesses a level of knowledge that allows him to take advantage of his "victim".

edited 8th Sep '15 8:46:31 AM by BAFFU

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#100124: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:46:14 AM

I'm saying an 18 year old has no business "dating" a 14 year old.

And I mentioned the rape bit because you mentioned social circles and most rape and sexual assault comes from people inside your social circle.

Oh really when?
BAFFU Since: Dec, 2012
#100125: Sep 8th 2015 at 8:47:08 AM

i've had a friend who was 18 and dated 14 year old.

they are still together.

6 years later.

cultural differences bro. They exist.

damn when I was 17 there a was 14 year old girl I really liked.

This all anecdotal but still.

edited 8th Sep '15 8:48:13 AM by BAFFU


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