Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
It's a very interesting battle right now between the rich sociopaths that make up the Establishment Republicans and Trump. Trump of course appealing to the deeply impoverished conservative base and all their cross burning and genocidal lunacy.
Or rather it would be interesting if it wasn't actively destroying the country.
Oh really when?In clinical terms, at least, we look for a 5 year old difference between people who are 18+ or less. So technically even a 21 year old with a 16 year old could be problematic.
IMO that needs to be reworked a bit but it all depends on so many situations that law, which is a blanket statement, could harm more than help...
Also. Trump's funny. Cray cray funny. I hope he makes it past the primaries so everyone slaps him in the face and I wonder who he will blame then.
edited 8th Sep '15 8:24:02 AM by Aszur
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothesFrankly if you're younger than about 18 but really 20 you're an idiot. You don't have the life experiences to be able to detect predatory behavior and you're still run by hormones and don't know any better.
Any 20 year old dating a 16 year old is a fucking predator. There is no debate about this.
Oh really when?yes there is.
you shouldn't remove agency of minors just because they are minors.
Same can happen at 18 or 20.
Also parents have a legal right to order the children to stop any relationship under the age of 18 in almost all jurisdictions age of consent regardless.
Americans have a particular puritan strain of though when it comes to human sexuality and believe that boys and girls under 18 are somewhat mentally impaired and cant form judgment about consent.
edited 8th Sep '15 8:30:39 AM by BAFFU
No, they're just too young to realize when they're being taken advantage of.
That's just something you don't understand at 16. But that is something you understand at 20.
And when you're that old you don't go out and try to date someone that young unless you're taking advantage of their young age and lack of wisdom.
They are predators. The end.
edited 8th Sep '15 8:34:18 AM by LeGarcon
Oh really when?Whereas I think it depends on a lot of thinks. Maturity and experiences are often a thing that vary too much by person, and a blanket statement by the law would hardly take those into account. As a general rule, yeah, it is very likely that a 21 year old with a 16 year old is an eyebrow raising thing, but.
But.
There are also cases where it could, and has, worked.
The law gets very muddy in this subject, but it still does not correct the issue (or the most important one, IMO). it happens in my country too. The puritanical forces that get their claws in the educational system forbid any sort of proper sexual education so whatever negative problems only gets exacerbated, and all the more tragic.
edited 8th Sep '15 8:33:10 AM by Aszur
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothesI've once had sex with a 20 year old woman when I was 17. Luckily I was abroad because this would have been statutory rape in many jurisdictions in the U.S.
In highschool when I lived in Japan one of the girls I studied with was 16 and fell in love with a 22 year old surfer. She was really into him. Should her boyfriend been prosecuted and registered as a sex offender?
I don't know about you but 16 and 17 year old girls tend to be light years away from their childish and immature male counterparts. They will almost always seek out older man to form a relationship with.
In the U.S there are a set of social and legal rules that impose extreme punishment so this behaviours are curtailed, but step foot abroad and you will see that the spectrum of human sexuality cant be so easily categorized once the body of a woman and a man are sufficiently developed to carry out reproduction.
I never said they weren't. I just think it's wrong to call people pedophiles for dating someone that could easily be in the same social circle.
I've had a 20 year old tell me she dates men 25 and up because they're more mature. It wouldn't surprise me if someone that was 16 or 17 did the same thing with guys that are 20.
edited 8th Sep '15 8:40:09 AM by Kostya
Also the law cant protect everybody.
Many women and men will be psychologically abused and taken care off and this acts will be legal.
Certain misery and suffering can't be regulated out of the human experience.
If there is consent one must face the consequences, even if one's consent is determined by one's lack of experience *cue to Romeo and Juliet.
edited 8th Sep '15 8:40:38 AM by BAFFU
![]()
What does that have to do with anything? We're discussing age of consent which only matters in cases of statutory rape.
You keep going on about the age of the youngest party. So to you a 14 year old shouldn't have sex period regardless of whether or not the other person is 16 or 18?
edited 8th Sep '15 8:44:51 AM by Kostya
it matters because the logic behind statutory rape laws are either:
1. Minors and incapable of providing informed consent and thus lack agency (just like an animal)
or
2. Even if consent is given, it is still a form of abuse because on of the parties possesses a level of knowledge that allows him to take advantage of his "victim".
edited 8th Sep '15 8:46:31 AM by BAFFU

The perfect ideal for the law's treatment of sex is one of those things that I feel is very complicated to tell what it 'should' be until society as a whole gets to a more mature stance on the subject. And that's not going to happen until we fix the economy, so people have enough comfortable leisure time to stop regressing into social conservatism.
But regardless of the ideal, almost anything is better than the current status quo. And making allowances for minimal age disparities is a pretty common sense quick fix. A 50 year old sleeping with a 14 year old and a 16 year old sleeping with a 14 year old should not be seen as the same in the eyes of the law.
Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.