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SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#99801: Sep 2nd 2015 at 6:58:45 PM

I really don't want to be the topic changer here, but I'll have to.

I'm pissed. This started after my mom brought up Trump's attack on Jeb because he spoke Spanish. My parents have very small I.Q.'s, and so they believe that English is the official language of the U.S. Despite my showing them evidence to the contrary, my particular sad and angry white male of a dad insists that English has been declared the official language. How exactly do I tell them that they are being morons?

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99802: Sep 2nd 2015 at 7:03:22 PM

Gonna go with, "You can't." But challenge them to provide any executed law or clause in the Constitution saying so.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#99803: Sep 2nd 2015 at 7:04:01 PM

If they're small minded and angry enough to ignore the evidence you've shown them it may not be worth it, especially if it's just going to cause conflict.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99804: Sep 2nd 2015 at 7:04:18 PM

You can't prove a negative, but you can ask them to prove their positive assertion.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#99805: Sep 2nd 2015 at 7:05:11 PM

Try to explaining to them that their is a difference between he language that the majority of people speak, and the "official languages."

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#99806: Sep 2nd 2015 at 7:08:14 PM

[up]x5 English is the de facto language of the USA, but by no means the official language.

Sure we've got Spanish speakers, but also Italian, Yiddish, German, Russian, Chinese etc.

In short America has no offical language. Never has really.

Its not even English anymore to be honest, which might explain the difficulty immigrants have.

In all honesty, our language should just be called American or bastardised English, since we use words from other languages as well.

To convince them, well I Don't think you can.

edited 2nd Sep '15 7:09:12 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#99807: Sep 2nd 2015 at 7:09:10 PM

Toss them a bone and acknowledge it as the de facto official language, but stand firm in the fact that there's no de jure official language. One of the things you're running into here is ego, since almost no one enjoys being corrected by their kids, but you can sometimes sidestep it by reframing the issue as a misunderstanding and giving them an out.

edited 2nd Sep '15 7:11:34 PM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#99808: Sep 2nd 2015 at 7:11:58 PM

Eh, just write them off.

If they're already dead set on denying the facts right in front of them then any exchange is pointless.

Oh really when?
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#99809: Sep 2nd 2015 at 7:26:48 PM

@Scifi

Also, something to tell your parents is that variety is the spice of life. Would it be ideal to speak one language? Yes it would, but there's no fun in that plus it'd be awfully dull.

But Arti has a point, its not so much the fact that you're right as it is getting your argument crushed by your kids.

edited 2nd Sep '15 7:34:54 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#99810: Sep 2nd 2015 at 7:34:20 PM

I think I discussed this with my mom once; I think that some states have declared English as the official language, but that's hardly the same thing as being the official language for the whole country.

And even if it was that hardly changes the fact that politicians often learn other languages, nor does it change Jeb's strategy by speaking the primary language of a large part of the voting public into a stupid one. This is a case in which whether or not this country has an official language is kind of null and void, because even if we did it would hardly restrict anyone from speaking in another language for any reason to a particular group of people. That'd outright violate the first amendment, I am pretty sure.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#99811: Sep 2nd 2015 at 7:49:52 PM

There are several differences when you try to draw comparisons to old dictators. Totalitarian societies thrived on war. Hitler needed it to make his economic system function (economics analysis of pre-war Germany suggested that Hitler was playing an economic shell game and needed, basically, plunder, to keep the thing going). Stalin had total control over his own country.

Two things have really happened since WWII (and accelerated since the end of the Cold War). First is the spread of democracy, where leaders are accountable and thus much less trigger-happy because a democratic leader has to win wars, and win them clean, or risk electoral disaster. The rally-around-the-flag effect only works in the short term, long-term there's no incentive for a protracted war.

Of course, this doesn't stop all war since a lot of democracies could still figure it's worth the risk. So the second effect is changing mores. Free trade is part of that, but realistically there was a lot of trade going on before World War II. But now there's a greater idea on the part of the common people that their prosperity is tied to their ability to interface with other countries. Middle-class Iranians are in love with some aspects of Western materialism, and would reject a scenario which would take this all away from them because suddenly they're in a sanctions regime that makes the old one look good, and then we go back to the "accountability" thing. Even though the Revolutionary Guard rigged the 2009 election and then filtered a lot of the eligible parties for the most recent election, there's still a system for pressure and feedback that means they're not free to just throw the country around.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99812: Sep 2nd 2015 at 8:07:55 PM

There is something to be said for the idea that the adoption of fiat currencies — monetary systems not shackled to a common currency — did more to end global war than all the democracy in the world. A country with a sovereign fiscal system need not steal gold from its neighbors to remain solvent.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#99813: Sep 2nd 2015 at 8:24:25 PM

Has global war really ended? There are always sparks being kicked off somewhere in the distance, and an overgrown forest makes good tinder. ...Unless it's rainy where this metaphor takes place.

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#99814: Sep 2nd 2015 at 8:24:34 PM

This is a case in which whether or not this country has an official language is kind of null and void, because even if we did it would hardly restrict anyone from speaking in another language for any reason to a particular group of people.

Speaking as a linguistics student, this is correct.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#99815: Sep 2nd 2015 at 8:39:43 PM

[up][up] The last global war was WW 2, we've had the occasional regional/local war since then but even they are on the decline, wars are starting to move to being within states instead of being between states.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#99816: Sep 2nd 2015 at 8:40:45 PM

[up][up]Most wars these days tend to be localized, and you'll never see every single country jumping into grand alliances against eachother- that's unthinkable [nja]

edited 2nd Sep '15 8:41:01 PM by Xopher001

Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#99817: Sep 2nd 2015 at 8:49:21 PM

Hasn't this sort of pattern occurred before though: that general dying-down of large-scale war as the saner minds seem to prevail and even rightfully speak of the end of the stuff, particularly that any new war would be too terrible to bear or that it would be too economically ruinous to those involved?

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#99818: Sep 2nd 2015 at 8:59:18 PM

Like Fighteer said, we use a Fiat currency now, unlike when WW 1 started

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#99819: Sep 2nd 2015 at 9:11:11 PM

The invasion of Iraq didn't feel localized. sad

Though I would bet that the refugee crisis in Europe is going to make Europeans a bit more proactive in preventing wars.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#99820: Sep 2nd 2015 at 9:15:10 PM

[up][up]I agree that that makes countries more economically independent, so they don't necessarily have to go blitzing for fiat. There are still commodities: Let's say the world starts going through a period of famine brought on by extended droughts or some other equally dismal hypothetical, and no quick solutions present themselves, so people do what we've always done and begin migrating. Do the countries who import a majority of their food act rationally? Do the exporters?

edited 2nd Sep '15 9:15:48 PM by Artificius

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99821: Sep 2nd 2015 at 9:49:33 PM

[up] Obviously, those sorts of acute resource shortages can lead to war regardless of currency systems, but the global economy is just that. If Bolivia can't get copper, it can import it from somewhere else. The issue then becomes one of extreme imbalances in real (exchange-rate adjusted) wealth between nations.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Artificius from about a foot and a half away from a monitor. Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#99822: Sep 2nd 2015 at 9:54:51 PM

I tentatively withdraw my objection, not the least because it's starting to sound like: "What happens to the system if the system breaks down?"

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#99823: Sep 2nd 2015 at 10:00:17 PM

And even if it was that hardly changes the fact that politicians often learn other languages, nor does it change Jeb's strategy by speaking the primary language of a large part of the voting public into a stupid one.

If I remember correctly, it's a bit more than mere political strategy — Jeb's wife is Mexican.

Keep Rolling On
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#99824: Sep 2nd 2015 at 11:39:14 PM

[up]Well yeah, and he probably speaks Spanish to her and her family because it's a nice thing to do with one's in laws, but that doesn't change the fact that speaking Spanish to potential voters in the Hispanic public is a political one on his part. It's part of how he's attempting to appear sympathetic on the immigrant issue (and succeeding more than literally anyone else in the Republican party, and being torn up for it) and playing up his connection to the Hispanic community.

It's just an example of how people can have more than one reason or motive for doing a thing, really.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#99825: Sep 3rd 2015 at 1:48:54 AM

Playing Devil's Advocate a bit here, but what are the reasons why the US shouldn't adopt Englishnote  as the official language? I've heard in favor of an official language that it does set/improve clear standards for official documents and reduce administrative spendingnote . But the only arguments I've heard against it are, basically, "you only want it because you're racist against Hispanics."

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

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