TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#99751: Sep 2nd 2015 at 3:51:28 PM

I'll believe it when I see it. Until then...

Actually in my opinion Dems excel at domestic policy(shocking I know.), foreign policy, well, it leaves something to be desired.

Republicans are the flipside, strong in Foreign, abysmal in Domestic.

Its a trade off.

edited 2nd Sep '15 3:54:56 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#99752: Sep 2nd 2015 at 3:53:20 PM

Republicans are so eager for two reasons, one is because Iranians are filthy Muslim Arabs who should suffer to let live.

Two is because their benefactors in the defense industry could stand to make a lot of money off another war.

Oh really when?
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#99753: Sep 2nd 2015 at 3:54:34 PM

Republicans are so eager for two reasons, one is because Iranians are filthy Muslim Arabs who should suffer to let live.

With the massive irony blinkers since that sort of attitude is part of what causes a lot of anti-West sentiment in the Middle East.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#99754: Sep 2nd 2015 at 3:55:48 PM

[up][up]Actually their Persians, and they hate Arabs...

edited 2nd Sep '15 3:56:38 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#99756: Sep 2nd 2015 at 3:58:31 PM

The Iranians still get something like two weeks notice before inspections, and the weapons embargo on them will be lifted after ten years, and most of the limits on their nuclear program will expire after a short time, leaving them free to go for the bomb if they so chose. Mind you some kind of deal had to be reached,nothing short of an all out ground invasion could have stopped the program. But we could have gotten a better deal just by Obama not making it clear how badly he wanted this thing in public. The Iranians needed this. If Obama had not made it seem like his administration needed it more we could have wrung concessions out of them. Of course saying this makes me some kind of evil neoconservative warmonger.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#99757: Sep 2nd 2015 at 3:58:47 PM

Not sure how foreign policy is better under republicans. Media outside the U.S cringes, specially latin ones, when any republican is elected.

I assume other nations are just as familiarized with the U.S political system as latinos are.

If Obama had not made it seem like his administration needed it more we could have wrung concessions out of them

Not necesarily a warmonger but this just leaves me wondering why Iran owes the U.S anything when elaborating a nuclear energy program.

edited 2nd Sep '15 4:02:48 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#99758: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:02:27 PM

[up] Because all other nations are filled with enlightened champions of knowledge who know how we should do everything, and if only those stupid fat ugly racist Americans weren't allowed to run America the world would be so much better. Seriously though, I agree that the Republicans historically have not been much better than the Democrats, and recently have been a hell of a lot worse, on foreign policy. But just because foreigners don't like or foreign policy doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad one, the fact that it's just plain idiotic means it's bad policy.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#99759: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:02:53 PM

I don't think the Iranian leaders are stupid. If they ever try to launch nukes at Israel, Israel would flatten them in retaliation. Hell, Israel has that horrifying Samson Option thing where they'll launch at everyone else in the region if someone goes after them in a way they can't defend against.

But the thing is that Iran isn't exactly liked by Saudi Arabia or Syria, and especially not by Israel or America, so their leaders have a rather justified fear of what might happen if they have nothing to deter attacks in the future.

edited 2nd Sep '15 4:03:48 PM by Zendervai

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#99760: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:03:59 PM

I think Iran doesn't want a bomb, or that they realize they can't afford one. They wanted the sanctions done.

What they want, probably, is breakout capacity: to have a pile of fuel ready to dump in a year if need be, but they're not North Korea. Their people won't tolerate their country becoming a pariah.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#99761: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:04:51 PM

[up][up][up]Call me simplistic, because I am simplifying foreign relationships a lot, but if the result of foreign policies end up with half of the world doubting/hating ya, I am not sure how that is by any measure, a "good" foreign policy.

edited 2nd Sep '15 4:05:31 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#99762: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:07:22 PM

[up]You can't please everyone as the old saying goes. Someone is always gonna hate you for something regardless of what you do.

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#99763: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:09:09 PM

[up][up] Depends what the results are. Russia for instance, saw their international reputation plummet after the seizure of Crimea, and yet they view the goal as worth it, and have achieved most of their objectives, and are now on their way to normalizing the situation. The US by contrast was hated, but failed to get any gain for that hatred, only getting thousands of dead, spreading Iranian influence, and a massive war debt. Foreign policy isn't a popularity contest, it's all about costs and benefits.

[up] Well how a country is viewed is important. It's just good PR isn't the end all be all people make it out to be, though bad PR is far more damaging for liberal democracies.

edited 2nd Sep '15 4:12:59 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#99764: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:12:08 PM

Because Russia knew that when push came to shove, people wouldn't really care. And they didn't, at least about Crimea. The Donbas mess is what the world community reacted to.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#99765: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:14:33 PM

[up] And yet they've done quite well for themselves in spite of it. The sanctions are having no effect, and the fears of the Rubles collapse are apparently greatly overblown. And when did I say it was Crimea that made everyone dislike the Russians?

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99766: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:24:18 PM

Last I heard, Russia was mired in a recession with Putin trying and failing all the usual "ruthless supply-side/neo-con measures" to the problem.

edited 2nd Sep '15 4:24:44 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#99767: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:27:45 PM

[up]Not the first time Russia's had a recession. They're surprisingly resilient.

Russian's it seems, are used to hardship.

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99768: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:33:20 PM

The entirely gratuitous nature of that hardship notwithstanding...

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#99769: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:35:57 PM

I don't know, but some of the Russians in the Russia thread were claiming that things aren't as dire as the West makes them out to be, and a large part of it is alarmist propaganda. Still, the fact remains that Putin's poll numbers are through the roof, Crimea is Russia's, and Ukraine just recently granted autonomy to the Separatists. In short, foreign policy is not a popularity contest, though one should never downplay the value of good PR.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99770: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:38:55 PM

So the reason why some Republicans have been publicly admiring Putin over Obama is that they believe wholeheartedly that international affairs is about being the biggest bully in the playground? Nice to know.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#99771: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:48:45 PM

[up]Isn't that how its always been?

Look at the the Great Powers before WW 1, or more recently the Cold War.

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#99772: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:48:53 PM

The Iranians needed this.

Not with the US they didn't. The U.S. always had to make a deal, regardless of Obama's domestic wants, because in the end the Iranians didn't need a deal with the US, just one with Russia that would break the UN sanctions. If the US had tried to play any harder then the Russians would have just made a deal without the US and the U.S. would have gotten nothing and been left imposing worthless sanctions against a regime that could easily resist them, as the UN sanctions would disappear without Russian and Chinese support.

@Skycobra, it's not just anyone you guys managed to piss of, one of your best allies now has a public hatred for your foreign policy, you dragged us into a war for profit that resulted in the death of a fair number of our soilder, all because Dick Chaney wanted to blow shit up and get money for his friends. You guys might be able to survive pissing off a lot of the world, but if you keep turning your allies against you by lying to them and getting their soilders killed you'll quickly find yourselves without friends.

[up] Not about being the biggest bully, the bullies fell, look at Imperial Germany and Nazi Germany's for what happens when you just tell everyone that they can go fuck themselves and that you're the biggest kid on the block. The big power survived precisely because even when they pissed of their enemies they ensured that they still had strong friends willing to back them up, the Republicans aren't just angering the US's enemies, their driving away its friends.

edited 2nd Sep '15 4:51:25 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#99773: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:51:41 PM

Tehran wanted breakout capability, to ensure that what happened to Iraq won't happen to them. They aren't out to glass Israel or the West.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#99774: Sep 2nd 2015 at 4:53:41 PM

Yeah in the end Iran is worried about the U.S. one day deciding to randomly install an oppressive dictatorship at the request of BP, something the U.S. (alongside the UK) did do once before.

That or the Israeli government deciding to nuke Terran for shits and giggles.

edited 2nd Sep '15 4:54:20 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#99775: Sep 2nd 2015 at 5:01:57 PM

[up]The Ayatollahs weren't much better. Hell they were worse.

edited 2nd Sep '15 5:06:50 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.

Total posts: 417,856
Top