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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#99426: Aug 26th 2015 at 7:48:07 AM

I am pretty certain that the circumstances of the definition of Free Speech were very different than the ones they are used on nowadays. I doubt the people who came up with such an idea in the past could have foreseen the many implications it could have nowadays, specially by making it an important part in law.

This shouldn't be a controversial observation, but it is because of textual fundamentalism. We have a difficult time understanding that the Constitution was designed by human beings with intellectual blindspots and a lack of clairvoyance.

Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#99427: Aug 26th 2015 at 7:49:47 AM

Actually, people do do that on campuses.

They are allowed to so long as they stay on the free speech line. Again, happened all over the place here. They could have gory pictures, megaphones, signs, anything they wanted within that space. Campus police would even line up around them for their protection.

One time a homophobe was so bad, some art students stood in front of the guy holding their huge drawing pads to block him from view. Another time students put bed sheets on brooms and sticks and put up a screen.

You can't lay hands on them and you can't enter the zones. You can't play music above them. But you can block them and kids can sing loud enough to cover them up.

Some kids protested a homophobe by singing Lady Gaga's discography.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#99428: Aug 26th 2015 at 7:55:16 AM

@Probablyinsane: You're likely male. Missing a period isn't that simple.

Women shouldn't assume pregnancy if they miss a single period in part because there are hundreds of other things that cause women to miss periods and some of them are far more common than others. A lot of women regularly miss periods even when they aren't sexually active. When a woman constantly misses periods for other reasons, pregnancy isn't going to be her first assumption. Periods aren't this clockwork thing.

I for example have a medical condition that means I get my period every 3-12 weeks. At what point should I assume I'm pregnant?

edited 26th Aug '15 7:57:33 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#99429: Aug 26th 2015 at 7:57:16 AM

We have a difficult time understanding that the Constitution was designed by human beings with intellectual blindspots and a lack of clairvoyance.

That is because the Founding Fathers have been romanticized to hell and back.

The Cult of the Founding Fathers is basically the only U.S religion I know of.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#99430: Aug 26th 2015 at 8:16:32 AM

[up][up]I apologize. Not only because I forgot about birth control pills affecting menstruation cycles but I also clean forgot that it can be irregular. Won't even blame the RCC's touting of the rhythm method - I just clean forgot.

Depending on the cost of those pregnancy detect kits, maybe do a check monthly or every other month?

Anyway, I just hope that most abortions are done early in the pregnancy.

edited 26th Aug '15 8:18:25 AM by probablyinsane

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99431: Aug 26th 2015 at 8:21:48 AM

[up] Quite frankly, it's not relevant to the debate. The anti-abortion camp views any termination of a pregnancy as an abhorrence and only accepts "third trimester", etc., bans as a foot in the door towards a full national ban. The opposition camp views pregnancy entirely in terms of a woman's choice as to how her body shall be used: if you want to tell her not to abort the fetus, you'd better have an alternative other than carrying it to term and being stuck with it.

Medical science has nothing to offer pro-lifers; the official medical literature views life as a continuum with no discrete point at which a zygote/blastocyst/embryo/fetus becomes an individual organism as opposed to a bunch of cells attached to its mother and has no opinion about the presence or absence of a soul.

edited 26th Aug '15 8:24:34 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#99432: Aug 26th 2015 at 8:24:10 AM

Women's bodies are scary.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#99433: Aug 26th 2015 at 8:27:37 AM

[up][up] Please do not categorize me into either camp.

With this issue, I am scrounging for bullet points that will allow me to not -feel- when it comes to this issue. Pretty much, I want a somebody else's problem field.

There are also a lot of times when I think both sides deserve each other because too much refusal from both sides to compromise.

edited 26th Aug '15 8:28:06 AM by probablyinsane

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99434: Aug 26th 2015 at 8:40:00 AM

There's a compromise that has been successfully established and tested in many places. Allow abortion, provide free contraception and comprehensive sexual education, work on causes of female poverty... and you get fewer abortions. It's like magic.

The thing about the opposition to abortion is that it's so often lumped in with the camp that insists that contraception is a sin and that women in particular should be abstinent before marriage: the "Stay in the Kitchen, barefoot and pregnant" crowd. This is a cultural dead-end. It is going nowhere. It is implacable because it refuses to admit that it doesn't work.

Paradoxically, if you want to stop abortions, allow them.

edited 26th Aug '15 8:41:35 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#99435: Aug 26th 2015 at 8:51:34 AM

[up]. Oh I dunno, most Roman Catholics are pro-birth control and even pro-gay. While having considerable issues with abortion.

Seriously, it would help a lot to not immediately assume that most people who have issues with abortion are anti-women.

I live in a country wherein we may just end up with our third female president and most hospital staff men and women would refuse medical care to someone whom they suspect had an abortion.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99436: Aug 26th 2015 at 8:52:22 AM

I live in a country wherein we may just end up with our third female president and most hospital staff men and women would refuse medical care to someone whom they suspect had an abortion.
That's disgusting.

And the Roman Catholic Church's official position is against contraception and pro-abstinence, no matter what individual Catholics might believe. The Church has only recently begun accepting gay rights.

Edit:

Seriously, it would help a lot to not immediately assume that most people who have issues with abortion are anti-women.
Except that the effect of their positions, whether they admit it or not, is to suppress sexual and economic equality for women, because banning abortion means that a single case of poor judgment, rape, etc., chains a woman (and only a woman) to her body and its issue for nine months plus eighteen years. Men get off Scot free unless some court makes them pay child support, and even then it's on the woman to chase them down for it.

edited 26th Aug '15 9:00:19 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#99437: Aug 26th 2015 at 8:55:45 AM

@Aszur: Gabrael can tackle this for me in more detail, but it also has a lot to do with maintaining the appearance of literal, unyielding interpretations of texts rather a sincere consumption of those texts. Many people who claim to stand behind the Constitution and the KJV Bible down to the letter haven't actually studied it in any real scholarly detail. Ditto for constitutional literature.

This is apparent in many interpretations of texts and narratives. Many Americans who want a more aggressive boots-on-the-ground approach to ISIS don't even pronounce the word "Iraq" properly (it's "ee-rock", not "EYE-rak"), and it's painfully obvious that many members of ISIS haven't really read the Qu'ran in any significant detail. "Well-regulated militia" probably doesn't mean what a lot of people think it means, either.

People tend to not want to admit that their understanding of a text is based more on apocryphal narratives than on the text itself.

Seriously, it would help a lot to not immediately assume that most people who have issues with abortion are anti-women.

Sure. I agree with this up to a certain point, but this is about degrees of separation and the difference between fundamental bigotry and behaviors of bigotry. To use an analogy, most people who say "All Lives Matter" or "Not All Cops" are not de jure racists, but almost without missing a beat, their discussions about black people reveal faults in their perspective. Not necessarily untenable, but problematic enough to warrant in-depth discussion.

Being anti-abortion does not make one misogynistic on an ostensible, nuclear level (anti-abortion feminists are a thing, in my opinion), but the topic-specific politics tend to not match up with their whole perspective on women as a group of people. Then again, I'm admittedly a little fuzzy about gun rights either despite or because I'm black - the demographic that endures some of the most frequent gun violence. < Shrug >

edited 26th Aug '15 9:03:11 AM by Aprilla

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#99438: Aug 26th 2015 at 8:56:48 AM

[up][up][up]Where are you getting the idea that most Roman Catholics are pro birth control and pro gay...?

edited 26th Aug '15 8:58:18 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#99439: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:00:05 AM

[up][up][up]. Yes, it is, but it's not because they're anti-women. They just happen to think it's not right to kill defenseless baby.

Again, kindly, do not lump sum abortion, birth control and women's rights.

Despite that it took ages for my country's to finally go over the RCC's head on birth control, we still somehow managed to be ahead of the curve when it came to gender equality.

[up]. Polls. You can look it up on Google or Wikipedia Roman Catholics pretty much point blank ignore the church on birth control and quite gay friendly. That's why other christian denominations like to call us lazy Christians.

edited 26th Aug '15 9:02:21 AM by probablyinsane

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#99440: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:00:21 AM

I assume he means just in his country?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99441: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:01:45 AM

[up][up] A woman who murders her newborn goes to jail in every country in the world. Aborting a fetus is not "murdering a defenseless baby" by matter of law or science. Your very language betrays your attitude in this regard. And for hospitals to deny medical care to a woman who's had an abortion is a gross violation of human rights.

Allowing birth control is great. It needs to be provided free of charge (or at minimal cost equivalent to buying a package of condoms) to all sexually mature individuals. Those individuals should be given mandatory education in reproductive health, sexual behavior, contraception, and gender roles. The society should support a woman's (or a man's) choice to raise a child by guaranteeing family leave and providing economic support for parents who do not work.

edited 26th Aug '15 9:05:20 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#99442: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:04:00 AM

[up]. Eh, you think I think similarly to most of hospital staff over here just because of the words I used to describe their reactions?

Really?

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99443: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:05:53 AM

Then you should make it clear what is your opinion versus the opinion of the people you are talking about.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#99444: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:06:45 AM

Yes, your message implied as much. Be a better communicator.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#99445: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:10:05 AM

well, I considered a lot importing abortion pills to sell at cost to women who needed abortions.

Even went thru mental plans on how to keep my identity anonymous .

Nothing came of it.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#99446: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:22:34 AM

People tend to not want to admit that their understanding of a text is based more on apocryphal narratives than on the text itself.

Hey. I am a pastor, not a nerd. "Reading" was not in my job description!

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#99447: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:45:31 AM

On the shooting in Virgina, the suspect is apparently alive despite shooting himself.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#99448: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:49:46 AM

And we pause for a brief report of good news:

HAPPY NATIONAL DOG DAY!

I ask that everyone consider dropping $1 to the puppy based charity or animal shelter of your choice in honor of this wonderful holiday.

I gave my furrbabies extra loves and a treat before I left for work today.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#99449: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:53:03 AM

One day they'll be big and strong bear-dogs like their momma.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#99450: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:56:10 AM

My puppies are getting steak for dinner.

Oh really when?

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