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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#99001: Aug 19th 2015 at 1:28:22 PM

@Native Jovian: He had a prosthetic leg and was in crutches. What could he have possibly done, gnaw your arm off?tongue

edited 19th Aug '15 1:28:52 PM by kkhohoho

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99002: Aug 19th 2015 at 1:30:13 PM

The problem goes beyond the number of police officers or unnecessary use of force. The incident illustrates a pattern of police deliberately escalating encounters with minorities in ways that they would not do with white suspects.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#99003: Aug 19th 2015 at 1:36:13 PM

[up][up]Yes. People can and do bite if not properly restrained, and human bites are nasty, nasty things. A dozen+ stitches and potentially-deadly infections (to say nothing of the risk of chronic illness via blood-borne disease, etc) kind of nasty.

[up]This particular incident doesn't illustrate anything of the kind, because we don't know any of the details of how things got escalated. It's entirely possible that the guy did something that entirely justified the police physically subduing him. We don't know; nothing was said about it. It's also entirely possible that he did nothing wrong and the decision to restrain him was the wrong one. In that case, the problem isn't using five officers to restrain him, it's restraining him at all.

Either way, that doesn't change the fact that there is a substantial systemic problem. But it also means that this particular incident isn't necessarily part of that pattern.

edited 19th Aug '15 1:38:19 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#99004: Aug 19th 2015 at 1:37:04 PM

@Jovian

Talking from a purely pragmatic perspective, it was 14 officers for a single handicapped man. 5, you could argue, would be able to have one for each limb (including prosthetic) and another as "safety". What the hell are the 9 additional cops going to do?

Setting moral sensibility aside, it's like a weird setup for the joke of "One guy does the work, the other 3 stand around chatting".

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99005: Aug 19th 2015 at 1:40:54 PM

[up][up] Racial politics aside, do you imagine that there was nothing more useful for the nine extra officers to be doing at the time? Like preventing or investigating actual crimes?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#99006: Aug 19th 2015 at 1:41:26 PM

[up],[up][up]Like I said, you could argue that 14 guys is excessive and I'd probably agree. From the video, it looks like the rest were on crowd control duty, which is a legitimate thing that also constitutes good policing. (You can't focus on the person you're restraining and the crowd surrounding you at the same time.) Whether 14 is actually necessary I don't know and won't argue. Of course, I didn't actually see that many officers (I think the max I saw at once was seven?) but I skimmed the second half of the video, so who knows.

In any case, there's a huge difference between "suboptimal use of police resources" and "police brutality".

edited 19th Aug '15 1:46:45 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#99007: Aug 19th 2015 at 1:44:18 PM

[up][up]Continuing with the pragmatic angle, an estimated 4 hours is spent booking and processing arrested suspects during a patrol officer's beat. That's 4 hours lost where a potentially more severe crime or emergency cannot be addressed properly. I bring this up because arrests resulting relatively minor infractions (and non-existent ones) like the one Sandra Bland faced are, morality set aside, a complete waste of time. Most reputable law enforcement veterans admonished the officer for not just giving her a citation and letting her be. Apparently his ego got in the way and that became too difficult.

I'm not specifically speaking in the context of the homeless man. I'm just making a general observation.

edited 19th Aug '15 1:46:04 PM by Aprilla

GrandPrincePaulII Imperial knight from Western Eurasia Since: Oct, 2010
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#99009: Aug 19th 2015 at 1:59:45 PM

Some of those reasons I can definitely agree with, though I'm skeptical that Trump will actually provide what they want. But I understand a lot of the reasoning.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#99010: Aug 19th 2015 at 2:02:43 PM

I'm not 100% sure this is the perfect thread to post this article: I Can Tolerate Everything Except The Outgroup. But this might be the most interesting article that I've ever read, and it is extremely relevant to this discussion in particular, and to the way this forum works in general.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99011: Aug 19th 2015 at 2:03:43 PM

It's not hard to understand. Laymen are fed up with politics in Washington: the obstructionism, the failure to accomplish anything meaningful. Many of them are party-agnostic, especially as the media continues to portray the situation as one equally contributed to by both sides rather than a Republican-led effort. Many of them buy into the "control our debt" rhetoric, and were disappointed to see the Congressmen they elected "sell out" on accomplishing that goal, never mind that our deficit is way below what it was in 2008. That hasn't made the news.

They think that "furriners" are to blame for many of our problems: lost jobs domestically and overseas, crime, and whatnot. They want someone to take back America for Americans who won't take shit from anybody. Trump is certainly selling himself as that man.

If he wins the nomination, Hillary (or Bernie) will have to work extra hard to prevent herself from being seen as Yet Another Boring Politician who doesn't get the people.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AngelicBraeburn from Eccentric California Since: Jan, 2015
#99012: Aug 19th 2015 at 2:04:07 PM

‘I Just Want to Watch the Chaos...’––“I'm a young guy who is immature, a bit antisocial, and with no plans for kids or a wife ever. At some level, I don’t really care how things go with America as long as it’s fun to watch.”

I'm gonna hope this guy was just trolling the interviewer.

I would like to offer my reasoning for supporting Trump. I know he would do a pretty terrible job at this point, but I really am at the point of letting the whole thing burn down and explode. Trump would help us get there faster and more efficiently. Like the joker from The Dark Knight, I just want to see the world burn.

Now this guy on the other hand is definitely a troll. The Joker comparison just killed any believability.

edited 19th Aug '15 2:20:41 PM by AngelicBraeburn

The artist formally known as Deviant Braeburn
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#99013: Aug 19th 2015 at 2:18:35 PM

Not entirely. It's a very popular sentiment, especially among younger people who don't have any real appreciation for how disastrous "letting everything burn" would be.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#99015: Aug 19th 2015 at 2:20:09 PM

No, I've heard that same bit before. Joker and everything.

That's how disinterested and uneducated people are in the way of politics.

You'll usually find that people who say these things are upper class white children who never suffered a moment of hardship in their life.

edited 19th Aug '15 2:20:30 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#99016: Aug 19th 2015 at 2:30:57 PM

Maybe that's their problem: they want hardship, challenge, to be tested and hurt. Isn't that why BASIC training is so fetishized?

They also feel impotent to shape the world in their own image, rather than that of their overprotective, condescending guardians, and so they wish for the opportunity that they think chaos will provide. That notion is not entirely without its merit... if you're willing to handle the potential risk as opposed to the status quo.

Also, no comment on the article I linked earlier?

edited 19th Aug '15 2:33:29 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#99017: Aug 19th 2015 at 2:42:10 PM

[up]I used to want stuff like that to happen to the country, I felt the era I was raised in, which at the time I was told was one of prosperity and America being the greatest country on Earth was, "boring." I wanted life or death, liberty or tyranny, struggles that I had heard about in the history books. Though some of that foolishness may yet linger subconsciously, you know when I stopped believing that bull shit? WHEN I WAS 8!! I would say these people are stupid, but that would be an insult to stupid people.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
GrandPrincePaulII Imperial knight from Western Eurasia Since: Oct, 2010
Imperial knight
#99018: Aug 19th 2015 at 2:45:38 PM

[up]

The 1990s and early 2000s were more boring than the current decade.

Lazy and pathetic.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#99019: Aug 19th 2015 at 2:48:32 PM

[up] Indeed, but I was born in 98. Yeah I know a lot of shit went down in that era, but my parents mostly shielded me from it, especially any indication that the Iraq war was not a spectacular American victory. In some stupid way I blamed myself for what happened to the country, be careful what you wish for and all that.

Edit: Like I said, small child.

edited 19th Aug '15 2:48:46 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#99020: Aug 19th 2015 at 2:53:51 PM

The second those "Just in it for the chaos" kids end up having no internet they will scream and howl more than anyone to return to something resembling a status quo tongue

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#99021: Aug 19th 2015 at 2:58:11 PM

Yep, the second life becomes remotely difficult they'll buckle.

Oh really when?
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#99022: Aug 19th 2015 at 2:58:32 PM

[up][up][awesome] So fucking true[lol][lol]

Edit: Honestly these kids do seem a bit like Comic villains or something of the like. While some of us are actually trying to research the issues and cast our vote for whomever is best for the country, these stupid fucks are talking about "burning it all down." I know it's a stupid analogy, but regardless, we can all agree that these little misanthropes are fucking stupid.

edited 19th Aug '15 3:04:26 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#99023: Aug 19th 2015 at 3:04:13 PM

It would be nice if "there is an oppressive, unjust, hypocritical, seemingly unmovable system in place, youth appear that, by their merit and action or by sheer accident, trigger a chaotic upheaval of the system, are challenged by these circumstances to perform heroic feats, rise to meet these challenges exceeding all expectations, and ultimately triumph and replace the old order with truth, justice, freedom, and the hope for positive change" wasn't the plot of practically every damned story we serve them in all media.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#99024: Aug 19th 2015 at 3:05:16 PM

[up] YA novels and their movies. I liked the Hunger games, and even then only the first book, and found the rest to be pandering drivel.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#99025: Aug 19th 2015 at 3:07:05 PM

They eat it up, and we serve it to them.

I suppose such stories are still better than perverse romant—oh, wait, actually Twilight does that as well. Sigh.

edited 19th Aug '15 3:07:20 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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