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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#98951: Aug 19th 2015 at 9:02:24 AM

A lot of that has to do with one's lived experiences as well. Obvious, I know, but worth remembering. Libertarianism does sound like a great idea until you think about it for about five minutes. Additionally, there's very good reason why people of color and women tend to not lean towards libertarianism, which goes back to one's lived experiences.

To put it charitably, many people who fly the libertarian banner tend to be white guys in a STEM field who are kinda-upper-ish middle class. That is, they have student loan debt and car payments like anybody else, but they also make a comfortable living and they can probably find jobs more easily whether they want to admit it or not. I'm fully aware of minorities and lesbians who identify as libertarian, so let's not play that game. Suffice it to say, ideologies like objectivism and Austrian economic theory tend to gain a following in demographics that have relatively few or no weighed experiences with poverty, racial discrimination or sexual assault.

edited 19th Aug '15 9:07:54 AM by Aprilla

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#98952: Aug 19th 2015 at 9:05:01 AM

These were mild ideas, like legalization of marijuana, support for gay marriage, things like that. Individual ideas that are increasingly having broad support.

Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#98953: Aug 19th 2015 at 9:11:00 AM

[up]Well that's the thing I was getting at with identity politics yesterday. A lot of guys who identify as libertarian support progressive policies at least on a theoretical level. The problem is that a lot of these progressive values are moral no-brainers like the idea that female genital mutilation is bad or that schools need to be better. They're vague, fuzzy moral, social and economic beliefs that aren't especially noteworthy. However, as we saw with the way many Sanders supporters responded to BLM, these cookie cutter morals fall apart under closer scrutiny.

EDIT: Everyone here, regardless of their political leaning, should recall buzzwords and phrases like "simplify the tax code", "revise the Fed" and "job creators". Again, they sound like cool ideas at first, but you start realizing that it's hot air after a while. A better example might be something like drug testing welfare prospects, which sounds like a great idea...for a minute. I don't hate libertarians per se, but I keep noticing that in conversations with a lot of them, they insist on compartmentalized thinking that willfully ignores how systems work together.

edited 19th Aug '15 9:15:18 AM by Aprilla

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#98954: Aug 19th 2015 at 9:12:18 AM

[up][up]I'd support anyone legalizing marijuana, with that my stoner room mate can safely smoke outside instead of leaving my house smelling like a Snoop Dog party.

[up]I think it is important for candidates to focus on the "how of things", it isn't an exclusive thing of the US, but when I look at a brochure over how said politician is planning to create jobs or improve social conditions I have to pay close attention.

I'd give examples of what happened here but this is the US thread.

edited 19th Aug '15 9:16:10 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#98955: Aug 19th 2015 at 9:20:34 AM

they insist on compartmentalized thinking that willfully ignores how systems work together.

Exactly. I see that problem with my brother, and you put it really well.

Have you pointed out the problems to them, and how did they react?

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#98956: Aug 19th 2015 at 9:27:02 AM

I tend to cherry-pick from different systems and usually feel tired when I get diagnosed as liberal, conservative, socialist, etc.

I do prefer moderation, but there are also cases when my position on whatever subject is pretty damn extreme. (I'm pretty much zero tolerance with the pet industry.)

Speaking of simplifying taxes, I like what Taiwan did with receipts - they turned them into lotto tickets. Don't know if they still do that, but it's such a neat idea in how to make sure businesses use official receipts.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Gault Laugh and grow dank! from beyond the kingdom Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: P.S. I love you
Laugh and grow dank!
#98957: Aug 19th 2015 at 9:28:08 AM

[up] They do still do that. I won 200 bucks last month.

yey
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#98958: Aug 19th 2015 at 9:32:24 AM

How is Trump doing in nationwide, cross-party opinion polls?

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#98959: Aug 19th 2015 at 9:34:11 AM

On the Trump poll, he's behind by 'only' 6 points. Anyone remember how much Obama beat Romney by? 3.9.

Yeah they're exaggerating how much closer Trump has gotten a ton.

As for Trump defo being the republican nominee. What percentage of the primary vote is he predicted now? Cuss I didn't think he's broken 30% yet.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98960: Aug 19th 2015 at 9:35:55 AM

He's way ahead of the pack. The only way he stands to lose is if the remainder of the field is vetted out and puts forth a clear alternative.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#98961: Aug 19th 2015 at 9:36:28 AM

See, the solution to ideologism is to hate everything like me so now that you do not expect anything from anyone your answer to any ideas would be a resounding "MEH".

"But Aszur. Wouldn't that hurl you into the black abyss of oblivion where there is nothing else to wait for but the sweet nepenthe of death? Come! Join the rest of us clinging to a splintery board like an old man in a typhoon struggling to avoid the briny dephts! The boards have colors and you can pick your favorite!"

To which I say "Glub glub glub".

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#98962: Aug 19th 2015 at 9:38:15 AM

Bear in mind the last polls to come out are at plus or minus 5%. Thats not an insignifiant margin of error for early polls like this.

EDIT- Especially given the razor thin margins between everyone but Trump himself...who, with that margin of error may or may not be as high as everyone wants to think. May even higher as well as lower.

edited 19th Aug '15 9:39:24 AM by FFShinra

Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#98963: Aug 19th 2015 at 9:38:50 AM

@Bonsai: I don't want to narrow the focus of the discussion too much, and I don't want to shift focus toward your brother (again). That said, I really get why white nerdy guys flock to libertarianism. The Rand Paul bumper stickers. The comic books. The video games. The fantasy and sci-fi novels. Being really smart and well-educated and not being fully appreciated for the work you put into your degree. I have colleagues who identify closely with libertarian doctrine, and I totally get where they're coming from because I share of a lot of their hobbies and inclinations.

If I were white and I worked as a coder or an engineer with decent take-home pay, I'd be flapping my jaw about Ayn Rand and Austrian economics, too. When I hear guys like Penn Jillete say that the government shouldn't force you to pay taxes on a school, I get it - on paper. Stuff like charter schools, getting rid of the post office, climate change denialism and Milton Friedman quotes just don't fly when you empirically see what they do to the people who already have too little to spare. Poor people, minorities, women, LGBT people, neuroatypicals, etc.

Just ask Gabrael how privatized mental healthcare services are working. Plenty of my teacher buddies can tell you what kind of effect charter schools are having on segregation and wealth disparity, but a lot of these dudes on the internet don't want to hear it because for them, the free market dictates all. They often ignore the paradox that a free market can only remain free through regulatory policies, and that often includes policies you don't like.

As Fighteer is wont to say, the government is an insurance agency writ large.

edited 19th Aug '15 9:39:10 AM by Aprilla

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#98964: Aug 19th 2015 at 9:38:57 AM

[up][up][up][up]Unfortunately the main argument against Trump from the GOP perspective (that he won't win the general) won't fly in the primaries. This is the place where Santorum placed second last time.

edited 19th Aug '15 9:39:20 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#98965: Aug 19th 2015 at 9:39:51 AM

[up][up][up] So if the field eventually narrows down to Trump and one remaining anti-Trump candidate? Like it's almost certain to do?

Trump needs 50% of the primary votes to win the nomination. Unless he's close to getting it I see no need to worry.

edited 19th Aug '15 9:41:12 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#98966: Aug 19th 2015 at 10:06:27 AM

What would his other two wishes be, I wonder?
A brain and a heart?
you've wasted what could have been a good 45-minute cardio/resistance session on a 3-hour debate
What if you only browse TV Tropes while you're on a treadmill or exercise bike?

Missouri lawmakers try to impose dress code in order to protect female interns working in the state capitol.

We all expect that a grown man, who was elected to serve in a state’s legislature, should be able to control himself around young, teenage interns, right? Apparently two Republican lawmakers in Missouri think that it is not the adult legislators’ jobs to control their urge to sexually harass teenagers, but instead it is the young interns’ jobs to cover up their bodies to prevent their own assaults.

In May, House Speaker John Diehl (R) resigned after he was caught sexting a 19-year-old college freshman who was participating in the Missouri Capitol internship program. In July, State Sen. Paul Le Vota (D) also resigned after allegations that he sexually harassed not one, but two interns. Now, Reps. Bill Kidd (R) and Nick King (R) are trying to solve the problem of sexual harassment by proposing a “modest dress code” for teenage interns.

First of all, we all know that female lawmakers are not having problems controlling themselves around male interns, so King’s mention of a dress code for “males” is a smokescreen.** The lawmakers are really only concerned about the females distracting the male legislators, because apparently grown men are incapable of focusing on their jobs when a teenager has a low-cut blouse on?

When the dress code was suggested, Democrats immediately spoke out against it. U.S. Sen. Claire Mc Caskill sent letters to the lawmakers he proposed the silly idea and said,“ [it] reeks of a desire to avoid holding fully accountable those who would prey upon young women and men seeking to begin honorable careers in public service.” Rep. Jeremy La Faver (D) also mocked his colleagues who suggested it:

“If my plaid jacket or the sight of a woman’s bare knee distracts you from your legislative duties, I would look for other work.”

The new House Speaker Todd Richardson (R) released a statement about the proposal on Tuesday and said they would not be implementing the dress code:

The group of lawmakers officially tasked with developing a new intern policy “did not recommend, and the House will not be implementing, changes to the dress code as the House already has in place a code that applies to all members, staff and interns equally,”

The fact of the matter is, the House doesn’t have a problem with slutty teenagers not wearing enough clothes, they have a problem with adult predators who can’t control themselves. By proposing that females “cover up” they are shifting the blame away from the lawmakers who should know better and placing it on the girls. That is no different from telling young women to behave in a certain way so that they do not encourage rapists.

It is outrageous that Kidd and King even suggested that the interns are to blame for being sexually harassed by suggesting a revised dress code. This is exactly the kind of thing that perpetuates rape culture and if these men believe that the way a girl dresses contributes to her assault, in any form, then they have no place in a government position. Period.

I would like to point out specifically where I added the **, that while the article writer can correctly call out horrendous sexist behavior, apparently the thought of yet another Republican lawmaker having a homosexual relationship utterly escaped them. And in any case, I am utterly shocked that they were shut down by their Republican Speaker.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#98967: Aug 19th 2015 at 10:09:18 AM

I suspect that the Speaker enjoys "the view" but is able to contain himself.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#98968: Aug 19th 2015 at 10:15:20 AM

I, too, am unable to control my caprice when a scantily clad young vixen sways her JUNK IN THE TRUNK and inflames my woefully lustful passions. Therefore, the JUNK IN THE TRUNK ruling is a sensible and appropriate measure to control the JUNK IN THE TRUNK excesses that may result from the inadverted swaying, parading, or otherwise garish adornment of the aforementioned JUNK IN THE TRUNK.

Alternatively, Sex Is Evil, and I Am Horny

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#98969: Aug 19th 2015 at 10:50:29 AM

Being really smart and well-educated and not being fully appreciated for the work you put into your degree.

Interestingly, I saw that recently in an article about how ISIS has so much appeal to educated teen girls in the UK. But that is drifting into another topic.

And I think you make many good points.

Meanwhile, I am wondering about the Ashley Madison hack and what fallout it may have. I imagine some big name politicians are on there. Will the media expose them as possible cheaters? (at the same time, the site doesn't require e-mail addresses to be verified, which means a lot of bullcrap could be going on)

It gives people yet another (legit) reason to be afraid of the internet and social media. My friend uses different names on every website she's on, and even a fake semi-convincing name in her e-mail address. I think that's a good policy for everyone to have!

Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#98970: Aug 19th 2015 at 10:59:26 AM

What if you only browse TV Tropes while you're on a treadmill or exercise bike?

Sure, I guess.

AngelicBraeburn from Eccentric California Since: Jan, 2015
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#98972: Aug 19th 2015 at 11:04:02 AM

[up] Already covered. Also didn't the Republican congress of some state try to do the intern dress code as well?

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
AngelicBraeburn from Eccentric California Since: Jan, 2015
#98973: Aug 19th 2015 at 11:07:34 AM

[up] Dammit..

State Department Suddenly Finds 18,000 Clinton-Era Emails It Had Said It Didn't Have.

edited 19th Aug '15 11:26:35 AM by AngelicBraeburn

The artist formally known as Deviant Braeburn
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#98974: Aug 19th 2015 at 11:11:36 AM

Only one politician so far has been publicly revealed to be using the Ashley Madison site, but he's not American. (He's Israeli, for those wondering) You'd think the media would be on top of this already or something. I'm disappointed, media!

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#98975: Aug 19th 2015 at 11:16:02 AM

[up][up] I got a 404. Could this mean Biden's entering the race? I mean their would be no better way for Obama to damage Clinton than with this, and the State Department is part of the Executive Branch of government is it not? Obama may have just ordered Kerry to have his people "look harder" for the Clinton Emails. That or the State Department cannot organize it's own records and takes months to find things.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.

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