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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#98776: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:19:16 AM

[up] In not so many words no.

[up][up] So the Confederacy is evil because it had slaves, and slavery in its constitution (which was written mostly by the Slave Owners themselves) so by extension, anybody fighting for the Confederacy supported slavery, despite the fact most Southreners couldn't afford slaves.

There's a reason it was called Rich man's war, poor man's fight.

edited 18th Aug '15 6:25:05 AM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#98777: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:21:06 AM

What law has been passed limiting the rights of private citizens to display the various flags of the Confederacy?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98778: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:21:39 AM

Private individuals may still display the Confederate flag, as long as they don't mind being seen as advocating a culture that explicitly fought for the right to keep humans as property. However, governments may choose not to display that flag so as not to be associated with that same culture, and citizens may petition the government to remove such displays. There is no "free speech" issue here.

If a majority of representatives, representing a majority of the people, vote to remove the Confederate flag from official state displays, then that is exactly how democracy is supposed to work.

edited 18th Aug '15 6:23:02 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#98779: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:23:17 AM

maybe this time they could come up with a flag that isn't butt ugly like most US state flags.
Hey now, I like Nevada's state flag. sad
slavery existed longer in the United States then the Confederacy, so why not ban it as well.
1) Slavery was not a defining principle of the United States. It was for the Confederacy, as can be seen in nearly every secession document and the Confederate Constitution and multiple speeches from its leaders. 2) The US flag has stood for any number of things in its history, some good and some bad. In general it has stood for positive things. The Confederacy battle flag has stood for only the Confederacy and Slavery. 3) God told you to take it down. tongue
Nobody is trying to ban the confederate flag.
Well, I'm sure someone is, though I don't see a widespread movement to make owning/flying a Confederate flag illegal.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#98780: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:25:52 AM

In not so many words no.

So they're not and you're just pretending they are because it suits you. Glad we've got that cleared up.

[up] Nobody relevant. tongue

edited 18th Aug '15 6:27:25 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98781: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:25:54 AM

Most flags are boring or ugly. It's sort of a universal attribute of them. [lol] For more on this, see John Oliver's take on the current voting for a new flag for New Zealand.

I don't see a widespread movement to make owning/flying a Confederate flag illegal.
However, such a movement would also be permitted due to freedom of speech.

edited 18th Aug '15 6:26:57 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#98782: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:27:33 AM

So the Confederacy is evil because it had slaves, and slavery in its constitution (which was written mostly by the Slave Owners themselves) so by extension, anybody fighting for the Confederacy supported slavery, despite the fact most Southreners couldn't afford slaves.

There's a reason it was called Rich man's war, poor man's fight.

Please do not put words in my mouth.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#98783: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:29:25 AM

No, just walking onto someones property and tearing the CSA battle flag down is okay. Or defacing Confederate statues with "Black Lives Matter"

Imagine if I, a white man, went and spray painted "White is Right." on statue of Martin Luther King Junior.

It'd be a chase scene ala Benny Hill.

edited 18th Aug '15 6:33:45 AM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98784: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:30:10 AM

[up] None of those is okay. Did someone say otherwise?

Well, the "Black Lives Matter" thing, while regrettable, is one of those messages that keeps not being understood, so I'm not going to begrudge it to the people saying it. After all, they are being selectively targeted for police brutality. Unfortunately, revolutionary movements have to break some shit for people to pay attention.

edited 18th Aug '15 6:32:15 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#98785: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:33:24 AM

None of those is okay. Did someone say otherwise?

We're not actively and openly condemning it so we must condone it. Or something.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#98786: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:34:39 AM

No, just walking onto someones property and tearing the CSA battle flag down is okay. Or defacing Confederate statues with "Black Lives Matter"

If you say so. I mean I personally don't think any of that's okay and nobody here has advocated for it, but you're entitled to think that it's okay if you really want to.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#98787: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:35:40 AM

No, just walking onto someones property and tearing the CSA battle flag down is okay.
As abhorrent as I find flying that flag to be, purposefully destroying private property is not ok. Besides, then how would we know which people to avoid?
Or defacing Confederate statues with "Black Lives Matter"
Vandalism of public property, especially with political statements, is something that I view as civil disobediance. The people doing so, if caught, should suffer the note consequences involved, and usually will to bring attention to their cause.
Imagine if I, a white man, went and spray painted "White is Right." on statue of Martin Luther King Junior.
It would still be civil disobediance. It would probably also end badly for you if you were caught.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#98788: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:37:26 AM

[up][up]I really wish sarcasm could be expressed easier on the 'net. sad

edited 18th Aug '15 6:38:31 AM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98789: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:37:46 AM

[up][up] There is no need to pothole Joking Mode there. If I saw someone with a Confederate flag on their lawn, I would not wish to interact with them and I would assume, prima facie, that they advocated slavery and/or segregation. It's a great way to proclaim to the world that one is an asshole.

I wouldn't tear it down, though. Assholes have free speech rights, too. /shrug

edited 18th Aug '15 6:41:20 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#98790: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:38:57 AM

Well, there's also the redundant false equivalence going on. Equivocating the struggles, ambitions and plight of black people to white people is a bold-faced attempt to ignore the history and psychology of institutional racism. This is emblematic of the hashtags White Lives Matter and All Lives Matter.

The former is a more explicit dismissal of the ideological message of BLM whereas the latter is more implicit but ultimately the same in its intent. It should be apparent that All Lives Matter, in its essential form, is deployed as a rhetorical weapon of counterattack rather than a sincere demand for unified action because it is almost always used in response to the appearance of Black Lives Matter.

There's also this Charlie Brown image that intentionally misses the point of how privilege and social inequality work.

EDIT: This Huffington Post article on Zachary Hammond and All Lives Matter illustrates the point fairly well.

edited 18th Aug '15 6:42:36 AM by Aprilla

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#98791: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:41:56 AM

Is it wrong that I laughed at the Panel? No? Okay then.

[up][up] So because I own a CSA battle flag, and play as the Confederacy in every Civil War Game I've owned, I'm in favor of segregation and Slavery.

edited 18th Aug '15 6:44:53 AM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98792: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:42:42 AM

Kind of is.

Anyway, [up][up] this is a valid point. If anything, black people have more than earned the right to tear down any and all symbols of the people who fought a war to keep them in chains and sold at the auction block, and then hung them and burned their homes down after losing that war. That they can't come into your private property to do so is more a matter of civil order than it is fundamental rights.

Edit: Yes, you are, by proxy if not by deed. You have enormous, albeit unconscious, privilege in the matter. Now, I wouldn't necessarily classify playing Civil War games as the CSA racist, but displaying their flag proudly in your home is.

edited 18th Aug '15 6:48:28 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#98793: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:48:38 AM

[up] Except the first incarnation of the Klan (if that's what you're talking about after the war) was originally founded to be a veteran's group for CSA vets, Nathan Bedford Forrest (one of the foundes) even denounced the groups exsistance when they started committing terrorist actions.

Also the first Klan Rally was held in Maine, Maine!

edited 18th Aug '15 6:50:47 AM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98794: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:50:30 AM

It doesn't matter how or where it started; it matters what it did. You are using non-sequitur arguments. The Klan adopted the Confederate battle flag as a symbol of hate. It is now ineluctably associated with that hate. Display it and you tar yourself by association with the people who burned black churches and hung black people.

You might be able to ignore that history in your little castle of privilege, but the victims of the hate cannot.

edited 18th Aug '15 6:51:52 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#98795: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:51:42 AM

Yet in the 1920s and even today the Klan uses the United States Flag.

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98796: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:52:19 AM

Look up "non-sequitur argument" before continuing to post here.

edited 18th Aug '15 6:52:54 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#98797: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:54:20 AM

Also the first Klan Rally was held in Maine, Maine!

Since when was Main supposed to not have racists?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#98798: Aug 18th 2015 at 6:56:18 AM

So, any other news preferably non flaggy news?

[up] It was surreal when I was up there several days ago. Being from Florida and living in Maryland for 16 years, I was used to seeing afro-americans everywhere, but I could count the number up there on my hand.

edited 18th Aug '15 7:09:39 AM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#98799: Aug 18th 2015 at 7:03:23 AM

Yet in the 1920s and even today the Klan uses the United States Flag.

Hitler Ate Sugar anyone?

Inter arma enim silent leges
BAFFU Since: Dec, 2012
#98800: Aug 18th 2015 at 7:10:37 AM

Where I come from if you display the flag of an insurgent group that tried to overthrow the government you could be arrested and face sedition and rebellion charges.

People who display the Confederate flag display treacherous intent towards the constitutional establishment of the United States. It should be classified as a form of terrorist group, that has killed way more americans than ISIS or Al QAEDA.

So in my mind displaying the confederate flag is no different than displaying the DAESH flag, or the Hezbollah flag, or the Al Qaeda flag.

It blows my mind that the Federal government is so permissive with the display of the confederate battle flag.

edited 18th Aug '15 7:13:06 AM by BAFFU


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