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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#98726: Aug 17th 2015 at 9:48:51 AM

'Merica will be fine so long as there is enough coffee, bacon, and red white and blue dyes to put into flags.

Russia is too entertained by Tennis hotties and slaughtering street dogs and gay people. China hasn't been relevant since the medieval ages and has never expanded outside of China. They are too busy trying to not implode by the fact they need to cram 1 billion people into a 5x5 meeting room just to decide how to do their budget.

Not even an actual modern U.S Civil War would have the negative impact on the U.S and the world that people make it would be war-wise. The separation would not also mean Russia and China would try to take Alaska or something. They would probably just snub the U.S and be like calling for Peace and shit and act all superior rather than actually go Sid Meier on their asses.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#98727: Aug 17th 2015 at 9:49:29 AM

[up][up][up][up]I have yet to see ANYONE'S foreign policies impress me. But I get that, at this juncture, its too early to get specifics.

[up][up][up]I don't want permanent hawks or doves. I don't want intervention for its own sake or never intervening at all. We have to do things on a case by case basis and have people make the tough calls that will help long term interests, even if it means short term hardship.

And the fact that no one has yet convinced me that they will do so is irritating me greatly.

[up]Um. No. While I don't agree that the world is out to get us (tis a stupid GOP trope), utter apathy is also nonsense.

edited 17th Aug '15 9:52:06 AM by FFShinra

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98728: Aug 17th 2015 at 9:52:05 AM

"Intervention for its own sake or never intervening at all" are policy positions that are found exclusively in the Republican camp. No Democrat has come out at either of those extremes.

Most Democrats support measured responses to foreign issues, promoting trade and using our military in agreement with and at the request of other nations who need help with insurgencies or similar problems. We don't support "imposing democracy by force", but will eagerly aid a nation whose people seek help with instituting democratic reforms.

Edit: When I said that we could withdraw our military and see no meaningful repercussions, I was using hyperbole. Clearly, our position as the world's police force is not one that we can withdraw from overnight; it is only too likely that something very ugly would fill that void. However, we can seek a balance between being a purely passive police force and being the kind that kicks in your doors and shoots you for having the wrong color skin or the wrong religion.

edited 17th Aug '15 9:58:42 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#98729: Aug 17th 2015 at 9:53:20 AM

[up][up] Not assuming everyone is out to get you =/= Apathy

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
GrandPrincePaulII Imperial knight from Western Eurasia Since: Oct, 2010
Imperial knight
#98730: Aug 17th 2015 at 9:59:38 AM

[up]x4

China hasn't been relevant since the medieval ages and has never expanded outside of China

[lol]

Lazy and pathetic.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#98731: Aug 17th 2015 at 10:00:36 AM

@Fighteer - In foreign policy, actions and not words are what matter. Going by Obama's (and others) words, you are correct. Going by Obama's actions? No. He has half-assed every aspect of the Arab Spring, is picking fights with the Russians for no reason that affects the US's national interests, and is overly fond of speeches over action. Now does that mean he fails at everything? No. I'm very happy about Cuba and cautiously optimistic about Iran. But that does not mean there is no room for improvement and that is why I want the democrats to give me specifics on how they will do so and why I want actual policies from the GOP overall.

And sorry, but it IS NOT just the republicans doing it. I'm not interested in your biases. I'm capable of discerning between the parties myself, thank you.

EDIT- Too many ninjas. Oy.

@ Fighteer - I'm only looking for that balance, as my previous posts state. The Democrats are not providing it as of yet though. Neither are the republicans. I continue to wait.

@Azsur - Your depictions certainly scream apathy. And like I also said in my post, I disagreed with the whole "everyone is out to get us" mentality, but downplaying everything on their face is dumb too.

edited 17th Aug '15 10:02:38 AM by FFShinra

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#98732: Aug 17th 2015 at 10:04:39 AM

[up] resists urge to argue about Ukraine[lol] I do agree with you about his handling of the Arab Spring, and also his handling of post withdrawal Iraq. Not just withdrawing the troops or the arguments for or agains that decision, but his failure to even try to reign in Malaki or to support the Iraqi's. The Frontline documentary stated that the basic attitude of the administration was that they didn't even want to think about Iraq.

edited 17th Aug '15 10:06:17 AM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#98733: Aug 17th 2015 at 10:07:13 AM

Precisely. And thats why I'm irritated with any sort of "well we'll just keep doing what the last guy is doing", because Obama himself was guilty of that in certain respects, and it made him look positively schizophrenic.

GrandPrincePaulII Imperial knight from Western Eurasia Since: Oct, 2010
Imperial knight
#98734: Aug 17th 2015 at 10:07:29 AM

[up][up]

Would you want to think about Iraq?

edited 17th Aug '15 10:07:58 AM by GrandPrincePaulII

Lazy and pathetic.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#98735: Aug 17th 2015 at 10:10:15 AM

[up] No, but thinking about it would be necessary. Presidents often have to do things they don't want to do. Hell even Kings and Dictators can't do whatever they want, at least if they want to stay alive and or in power.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#98736: Aug 17th 2015 at 10:12:10 AM

Obama hasn't really been picking fights with the Russians, though. He walked off from missile defense, and that never came back. Putin was stopped cold in Ukraine through the willpower of other groups for the most part.

Half-assing the Arab Spring i'll agree with, although Clinton's book title wasn't wrong, it was a big series of hard choices.

GrandPrincePaulII Imperial knight from Western Eurasia Since: Oct, 2010
Imperial knight
#98737: Aug 17th 2015 at 10:15:07 AM

[up]

Others like Biden are picking fights with the Kremlin. Obama does not keep them in check and deserves the blame for what happens next.

Lazy and pathetic.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#98738: Aug 17th 2015 at 10:15:24 AM

@Ogodei - Was mostly talking about State Department cheerleading just prior to the previous govt's downfall. Or the nonlethal support being given now.

[up]Though that too, if true...

edited 17th Aug '15 10:16:33 AM by FFShinra

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#98739: Aug 17th 2015 at 10:35:44 AM

Your depictions certainly scream apathy.

Because the thread and my point refers merely to the political and military exploits of these nations, not their economic ones.

The world is too entwined now for nations as big as the U.S, China or Russia to fall economically without the rest feeling it one way or another too. Prices fluctuate, goods grow or wither, and wealth can trade hands.

But from there to "We need weapons readily available to invade and destroy everyone" sounds to me a tad unnecesary. But that must be because my name is not Michael Bay and my country does not even have an army. So perceptions here will inevitably be different.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#98740: Aug 17th 2015 at 11:20:15 AM

No more invasions please unless the invader is prepared to take full responsibility.

I just read the Cracked article about isil Isis origin story. I had the feeling it all was mostly bush admin's fault, turns out way more connected than I thought.

catching up on Middle East news is depressing.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98741: Aug 17th 2015 at 11:23:18 AM

The adoption of fiat currencies worldwide has decoupled economic success from military success in such a way that it is far more advantageous for nations to trade for what they want than to seize it by force. Thus, territorial warfare on a global scale is effectively gone as a threat. Ideological warfare is far more prevalent and it occurs on a much smaller scale. Ideological warfare also tends to be asymmetric, meaning that conventional armies are ineffective against it.

Ergo, the U.S. military needs to stop wasting so much money on tanks and super-jets and instead invest in good old fashioned "boots on the ground". It needs to pay its soldiers adequately and care for them after they return so that the army as a whole will have good morale and people will be eager to enlist. The military-industrial complex is a cancerous growth that needs to be curtailed lest it suck the blood from our economy, which it will certainly do if a Republican gets in power.

Now, you want to know what Democrats will do with our army? Good, so do I. But I know what they won't do: they won't invade nations on false pretenses and they won't hold unrealistic assessments of our military capabilities, because they will seek out and listen to expert advice in the matter.

edited 17th Aug '15 11:23:55 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#98742: Aug 17th 2015 at 11:25:40 AM

Yeah, the military industrial complex is the biggest threat to American military power. Not the Democrats, not Russia, not our "decline", whatever that means.

Oh really when?
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#98743: Aug 17th 2015 at 11:42:39 AM

Regarding the gun conversation, a large part of the problem with the discussion is that the terminology is rather muddled. An "assault rifle", in common parlance, means a select-fire weapon (one that can switch between fully automatic, burst fire, or semiautomatic) firing a round that's larger than a pistol round but smaller than a machine gun round (the most common being 5.56 and 7.62). These are things like the M16 and the AK-47.

But "assault weapon" in terms of the "assault weapon ban" is vague and relies more on cosmetic features (like pistol grips and barrel shrouds) than on anything that actually affects the capabilities of the gun (caliber, magazine capacity, etc). "Assault weapons" are also universally semi-automatic, as fully automatic weapons (defined as any firearm that fires more than one round with a single trigger pull, so it includes burst firing weapons) are regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934. Modern gun control discussion is not and never has been about automatic weapons.

For example, the oft-mentioned AR-15 was not considered an assault weapon unless it had things like a pistol grip, a bayonet lug, a threaded barrel (which allows you to fit flash suppressors or muzzle brakes and the like — but not silencers, which are illegal under another completely different law), a folding or telescoping stock, or a barrel shroud. None of these things have a major impact on the way that the weapon can be used, but having them makes the gun an assault weapon and not having it means it isn't.

So basically, the assault weapon ban was useless even when it was in force.

There are basically two different kinds of gun violence that gun control attempts to deal with: spree shootings and "regular" shootings. Spree shootings get far more press and more calls for additional gun control, but regular shootings are what actually cause the vast, vast majority of harm — and as has been mentioned, handguns account for the vast, vast majority of regular shootings. So if you're really worried about gun violence, the whole "assault weapon" thing isn't really what you should be focusing on in the first place.

edited 17th Aug '15 11:52:51 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#98744: Aug 17th 2015 at 12:14:46 PM

fully automatic weapons (defined as any firearm that fires more than one round with a single trigger pull, so it includes burst firing weapons) are regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934.

Actually while that act did define and regulate the ownership of fully automatic weapons it has since partially been superseded in that department by the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986, which is the law prohibiting the sale of automatic weapons manufactured after 1986 to civilians.

An automatic weapon made before 1986 can be traded and owned under the 1934 act rules. However ones made after 1986 are banned outright from civilian ownership by the 1986 act.

Now even with spree shootings the type of weapon used is commonly not relevant, the use of an AR-15 compared to any other semi-automatic weapon is pretty meaningless. Now easy access to guns without passing a background check is a thing that may well be relevant to spree-shootings, but an assault weapon ban would do nothing about that.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98745: Aug 17th 2015 at 12:22:31 PM

I'll concede imprecise language with respect to the nature of the weapons. Banning "assault weapons" is meaningless, and banning burst-fire and full-auto weapons has already been done.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#98746: Aug 17th 2015 at 12:27:29 PM

[up][up]True, and I probably should've mentioned that for completeness's sake. I was mostly just pointing out that regulation of automatic weapons goes way back, and we're in no danger of machine guns becoming street legal any time soon, regardless of the state of regulation on "assault weapons".

[up]The thing that kills me is that there are certain things you can ban that would legitimately increase public safety — like extended magazines. Getting rid of 30-round magazines would significantly hamper spree shooters, at least (I don't know about regular shootings) without affecting much of anyone else. It's just that the assault weapons ban didn't look at any of that.

edited 17th Aug '15 12:31:31 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#98747: Aug 17th 2015 at 12:31:46 PM

[up]Plus it isn't like most of the real automatic weapons aren't either stolen from the police/military or acquired via contraband.

Tackling the shooting spree issues would be better deal with a heath reform to include mental health than banning or restricting things.

In most states you can't even own a gun if you have a criminal record or if you are diagnosed with a mental condition.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#98748: Aug 17th 2015 at 12:35:36 PM

In most states you can't even own a gun if you have a criminal record or if you are diagnosed with a mental condition.

Can't own a gun or can't pass a background check? Because background checks are only required for buying a gun from a registered gun dealer, my understanding is that (at least at a federal level) you can buy a gun from a private individual or be given a gun as a gift and no check of any kind of required.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#98749: Aug 17th 2015 at 12:37:37 PM

[up][up]Why not both?

Oh really when?
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#98750: Aug 17th 2015 at 12:44:22 PM

[up][up]Yeah, I should have made that clear, you can't get past a background check. Owning weapons previous committing a felony or being diagnosed still legal. Weapon transfers from individual to individual through private trades or giving them away still legal, though if any crime is committed with such gun can (and possibly will) be tracked to the original owner. The discussion is between forcing owners to do the paper work while exchanging guns privately versus it not being common enough to award regularization.

[up]I understood the reference [lol]

Inter arma enim silent leges

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