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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98676: Aug 17th 2015 at 6:48:53 AM

The "alleged ban" has been imminent every time a Democrat holds the White House and hasn't happened yet.

But seriously, if what you want is to go hunting for moose, you don't need an assault rifle.

Also, most firearm-related crimes are committed with handguns, anyway.

edited 17th Aug '15 6:53:26 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#98677: Aug 17th 2015 at 7:06:37 AM

@ Iran the most Democratic state in the region. You could probably count Israel or Tunisia as more democratic than Iran.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98678: Aug 17th 2015 at 7:14:12 AM

I could count Tunisia as a lot of things, but "important" doesn't come to mind in the list. Also, Israel is strongly dominated by conservative interests; its democracy is a lot weaker than one might imagine. That said, I think the tally was of Arab states.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#98679: Aug 17th 2015 at 7:19:57 AM

What?

Iran has a democratically elected parliament that has real checks on the democratically elected president, religious minorities get guaranteed seats in the parliament (though can't run for the general seats).

Now honestly there's still a lot wrong with Iran's democracy (the supreme leader is pretty much a constitutional monarch and the guardian council have a lot of issues), but the region doesn't really have many countries that come close.

Kuwait is probably the best out of the Arab monarchies and its PM is appointed, though it does have a strong parliament that is elected. With the republics you've got Syria (dictatorship), Libya (former dictatorship in civil war), Yemen (former dictatorship in civil war), Egypt (military dictatorship), Tunisia (former dictatorship turned democracy), Algeria (by all accounts run by a deep state), Lebanon (democracy but in a almost permanent state of civil war and internal conflict), Iraq (former dictatorship turned unstable clusterfuck) Israel (which has issues that can be elaborated on in the Israel & Palestine thread), and Turkey (which has serious problems with a deep state).

Iran isn't the best in the region, but it's kinda near the top.

On Sanders and guns, he is probably less likely to go for another assault weapons ban then Clinton, though he did vote in favour of the first one.

On a level I'd say it comes down to how much he cares about guns as an issue compared to other issues. Sanders is pretty weird on guns actually, he's voted in favour of the assault weapons ban but against background checks. The most recent thing I find can find from him on guns is “People in urban America have got to appreciate that the overwhelming majority of people who hunt know about guns and respect guns, and are law-abiding people, that’s the truth. And people in rural America have got to understand that in an urban area, guns mean something very, very different.”.

Edit: Yeah Tunisia wins out now, Israel depends on how one views the fact that Palestinians (who at least in the West Bank are under Israeli rule) have no right to vote in Israeli elections, after that you've got the unstable democracies (Iraq and Lebanon), the deep states (Turkey and Algeria), the dictatorships (Egypt and Syria), the messes (Yemen and Libya) and the monarchies.

edited 17th Aug '15 7:24:11 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#98680: Aug 17th 2015 at 7:29:48 AM

Just because Iran had one possibly rigged election in the last decade does not mean it's not a democracy.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98681: Aug 17th 2015 at 7:31:20 AM

The guns thing is a genuine case of a cultural/regional divide in American politics. In many areas, mainly rural, possession of a weapon is common sense, both as personal protection when police are a long way away and for the classic American past-time of hunting. In suburban and urban areas, possession of a gun marks you as someone who's very likely to commit a crime or at the very least intimidate people with the threat of violence.

It should be possible to solve these problems, but not in this political climate; and this is one case where I get very annoyed with the left's "ban all guns" movements. Do I sympathize with their motives? Yes. Do I believe that their agenda is in any way practical? No. Do I believe that they are antagonizing people who might otherwise vote Democrat? Yes.

edited 17th Aug '15 7:35:32 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#98682: Aug 17th 2015 at 7:33:35 AM

It's just a question of what you really need as well. A military grade assault rifle like an AR-15 doesn't really strike me as something most shooters need, either for defence or for hunting.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#98683: Aug 17th 2015 at 7:37:16 AM

[up] What makes the AR-15 (or guns like it) not suited for hunting?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98684: Aug 17th 2015 at 7:37:32 AM

Full-auto (and burst auto) weapons are overkill for hunting; their sole utility is to kill lots of people at once. They also look intimidating as hell. That said, handguns do the vast majority of killing in the United States. There is a reason why gun advocates accuse anti-gun groups of unfairly targeting assault rifles.

[up] Single-action weapons are more than adequate for any kind of reasonable hunting activity. I mean, really, is the goal to feed your family or murder ALL the deer? But again, that's not the point here.

The point is that most of the people who publicly saber-rattle about the Second Amendment don't have hunting in mind; they have armed insurrection in mind. The assault weapon bans are really directed at them. That and the indisputable fact that a ridiculous quantity of assault weapons bought in the U.S. goes to criminals and insurgents in other nations.

edited 17th Aug '15 7:56:14 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#98685: Aug 17th 2015 at 7:42:42 AM

out of the Arab monarchies
You forgot Jordan.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#98686: Aug 17th 2015 at 7:48:30 AM

[up]Micheal Jordan?

edited 17th Aug '15 7:48:45 AM by kkhohoho

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#98687: Aug 17th 2015 at 7:50:28 AM

[up] The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan Heir to the Arab revolt, rickety poor lifeboat for refugees throughout the region, somehow still standing despite people predicting it's disintegration since the 1970's.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#98688: Aug 17th 2015 at 8:09:30 AM

Yet any burst or automatic weapons sold in the US are under the E3 regulations, which includes registration and a heavy tax stamp both of which most gun owners don't have the money nor the will to get. The only automatic weapons that can be sold without it are the pre Assault Weapon Ban, which are expensive as fuck.

Most AR, A Ks and FN guns in the US market are semi-automatic versions or military rifles which most similarities are external and the stuff you can put on them.

Having those military style semi-auto rifles are cheaper and the ammunition is cheaper also. Intermediary caliber guns are great for medium and small game hunting and much cheaper to shoot than most hunting guns, with the guns themselves being cheaper.

I'd give more credit to the "ya'll don't need salt weapoonz to hunt moose and deer" argument if that wasn't one of the reasoning used to pass the 1994 AWB act.

Excluding a few models, most of the semi-automatic rifles, under the AWB are assault weapons, since they focus on the aesthetic characteristics of the gun instead of role and caliber. A FN-FAL or a M-21 with a pistol grip is as much of an 'sault weapon as an black finish AR or an AK rifle.

Those guns are cheap, easy to use, fun to use, have cheap ammo and are just as valid for small and mid game hunting as the older stuff and very good for practical shooting and other sportive shooting types.

Weapons under the AWB don't even have 2% of participation in gun crime anyway. Most of the killers in the US are small handguns. Banning or restricting those to reduce crime is like banning Cuban cigars to curb smoking.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98689: Aug 17th 2015 at 8:13:58 AM

Which is exactly why I said that the ban attempt seems to be a direct response to Second Amendment advocates who like to wave their scary looking AR-15 knockoffs around in an attempt to intimidate people.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#98690: Aug 17th 2015 at 8:21:01 AM

Democracy is the worst form of government

Except for all the others that have been tried.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#98691: Aug 17th 2015 at 8:21:50 AM

Here's an idea. Ignore the loonies and let them collapse under their own weight. The NRA only got more powerful after the AWB because it gave them ammo.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#98692: Aug 17th 2015 at 8:22:48 AM

What we should start doing is giving the Deer Kevlar vests and what have you. Then the "you don't need it" argument falls apart. :)

Leviticus 19:34
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#98694: Aug 17th 2015 at 8:23:40 AM

[up][up][up] Hehe amo

edited 17th Aug '15 8:23:56 AM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#98695: Aug 17th 2015 at 8:24:05 AM

I like a challenge...

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#98696: Aug 17th 2015 at 8:29:14 AM

@Blue I didn't, the parliament of Kuwait is more democratic and powerful than the Jordanian one. Jordan isn't bad, but the PM, cabinet, and region governors are all monarchical appointments. Now Jordan is possibly the most benevolent monarchy in the region but its claim to democracy are questionable.

@Fighter

Single-action weapons are more than adequate for any kind of reasonable hunting activity.

Single action in this case means what? Because don't AR-15s still need you to pull the trigger for each shot you fire?

edited 17th Aug '15 8:29:52 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#98697: Aug 17th 2015 at 8:31:48 AM

I think he doesn't know what "single action" actually refers to. I think he means manually operated weapons like bolt and lever action rifles as opposed to semi-automatics.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#98698: Aug 17th 2015 at 8:35:40 AM

Jordan isn't bad, but the PM, cabinet, and region governors are all monarchical appointments.
I was unaware that their PM and governors were not elected. Never mind me then!

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#98699: Aug 17th 2015 at 8:39:01 AM

Though give it a few decades (assuming it doesn't violently implode) and Jordan will probably be closer to a constitutional monarchy. I think Morocco is on that slow march as well.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98700: Aug 17th 2015 at 8:41:22 AM

I mean "one trigger pull per shot", not bolt-action weapons or weapons that make you reload each time.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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