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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#98376: Aug 11th 2015 at 12:05:52 PM

So in other words, it's a right-wing militia who see the police getting out of hand, want to take action, and aren't part of the usual racist bullshit that surrounds such groups? (The kind of person I kind of identified with around age 13-18 or so.)

I can definitely understand why the protestors are wary, given that most such "armed libertarian" groups tend to be racist as hell - and of course, anyone who isn't in favor of armed conflict with the police should have other reasons to say "Not...helping...".

edited 11th Aug '15 12:06:33 PM by Ramidel

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#98377: Aug 11th 2015 at 12:06:23 PM

Yeah if a guy got on my roof I would not be like "Oh Ok. You are here to protect me. Gee that is mighty kind of you!" I would probably tell them to GTFO and that if they slip and fall not only will I not be responsible for the amount of bones they will break, they will also have to pay my roof repair.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#98378: Aug 11th 2015 at 12:10:53 PM

Those guys will never take the side of the protesters.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#98379: Aug 11th 2015 at 12:12:04 PM

We could always assume...good...pffffft.

Though I do suspect that at least some of them are on "the side that's against the government." But again, I know some libertarians who actually believe that blacks, Latinos, and everyone else should have the same right to bear machine guns and rebel against the government for freedom.

It was actually only later that I was exposed to the "libertarian sovereign citizens" who wanted to kill all the *laundry list of racial slurs* for Jesus and realized that the first group of libertarians were an outlier.

Question is, is the first kind of libertarian being "on the protestors' side" much better?

edited 11th Aug '15 12:15:09 PM by Ramidel

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#98380: Aug 11th 2015 at 12:20:04 PM

In a very limited context, perhaps. If the police are going to act like occupying soldiers, then some guerillas could be the antidote, but that's really only talking about saving a couple innocent lives in a few cases. The big picture answer is "fuck no, we're better off without them."

Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#98381: Aug 11th 2015 at 12:20:18 PM

It isn't safe to assume that.

At all. And none of their action so far has been to protect people. They are there to protect a freaking conspiracy theorist. THEY ARE A MILITANT GROUP!

Oh my god this is so freaking frustrating...

You don't live here. You don't see what these people are capable of or how devoted and sincere they are in the garbage that they spit out. You do not see how easy it is for people to be hurt here and shit never happens.

If they were trying to protect the protesters, where were they all along? Where is their manfesto of solidarity? Where is there guard over the very memorial that was desecrated? Michael Brown's tree and plaque were torn up and stolen respectively less than 12 hours from being planted.

Where are they standing around black churches or lining march paths?

THEY ARENT DOING IT BECAUSE THEY ARE HATEFUL ASSHOLES!

They are not here because #All Lives Matter. They are there to stick it to the white man and have a chance to shoot a black person.

They don't give a damn about anything else.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#98382: Aug 11th 2015 at 12:35:47 PM

Looking back at the last few pages, it seems like you guys got caught up in one particular paragraph and set of phrases rather than the whole article? It seemed mostly like the authors were concerned with the trend of trying to eliminate anything offensive, to the point that it made trying to educate about or discuss difficult subjects or even have casual conversations nearly impossible. Like the example of a book cover with the KKK on it that was about fighting the KKK that got a complaint about offensive content. And the similar complaint about the book by Achebe? Seriously, how are we supposed to discuss the meat of difficult subjects if people are getting caught on small details like that? (General we for everywhere, since I find this place to be pretty good at discussing difficult subjects.)

The article mainly seems to be concerned about how subjective emotional truths may be obscuring the more objective truths.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#98383: Aug 11th 2015 at 12:52:11 PM

[up] To be honest, I would have liked to discuss more of the article. Reading this one paragraph just baffled me.

And yes, the "feeling are more important than facts" thing that's happening in universities (and probably other places) is a problem. I mean, teachers having to fear for their jobs because some over-sensitive student may dislike something? That's the death of critical thinking.

edited 11th Aug '15 12:56:21 PM by DrunkenNordmann

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#98384: Aug 11th 2015 at 12:54:22 PM

Scary how these actions are mirroring early Arab Spring protests...

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#98385: Aug 11th 2015 at 1:18:11 PM

At least in this case they aren't directed at the federal government, but rather state and local governments. They aren't going to blow up into something that will consume the nation... not as things stand, anyway.

edited 11th Aug '15 1:18:21 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#98386: Aug 11th 2015 at 1:32:31 PM

Frankly I just don't find them or any other group that wants to parade around with guns in the name of "protecting citizens" or whatever shit from the government to be illegitimate, laughable, and kind of terrifying.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#98387: Aug 11th 2015 at 1:37:19 PM

[up]

My Father was once talking about such groups (and keep in mind, he's certainly a libertarian himself), and I love how he worded it:

"They sure do a great job of making people with guns look scary!"

edited 11th Aug '15 1:37:35 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
#98389: Aug 11th 2015 at 1:42:10 PM

So these Oath Keepers are people who are not cops, but want to act like it? Why not just be cops?

Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#98390: Aug 11th 2015 at 1:45:32 PM

Like I said way back, this atmosphere of over-sensitivity is not quite based on ideology but on profit. Corporatization of the university system has led to a customer-producer-industry mindset, which doesn't sound bad until you consider how for-profit interests at the administrative level affect the performance of both the faculty and the student body.

One thing Europeans, South Americans and Asians often tell me is that American teachers at both the K-12 level and the higher education level have less control over their classrooms than instructors in their countries. You do have professors who are very interested in proselytizing students to their worldview, but in my experience, a big chunk of the academic content softening is a result of administrative meddling, which in turn is a result of the demand for profit. Students are paying customers, and not catering to them means they will take their money elsewhere. Cutting gen ed math and lit courses may have a political bent to it, but I think many universities and colleges are doing it because students are realizing they can just forgo those classes elsewhere or go to a cheap community college. So the administration nukes them.

In a corporate-style higher education model, the classroom materials are dictated by profit margins, and the ideological basis, while present, isn't the heart of the problem from what I'm seeing.

This is what some cultural critics have called Starbucks progressivism. You buy a cup of Starbucks coffee, and you are willing to spend the extra money for what is quite frankly an overpriced beverage that probably isn't very healthy, and you pat yourself on the back because part of that money is supposedly going to some charitable cause in Africa or something.

The charitable cause conditions you toward a moral incentive, but it's still ultimately a capitalist model you're supporting. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but our corporate-style market approach to education is leading some very left-leaning students (and some faculty) to believe they're fighting the good fight when it's really just that the adminstrators and provost realize that your LGBT student activist money is just as green as anyone else's.

edited 11th Aug '15 1:48:46 PM by Aprilla

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#98391: Aug 11th 2015 at 1:47:40 PM

[up][up]Because then they'd be part of the big bad government machine they are supposedly protesting against.

Also sovereign citizens maybe?

edited 11th Aug '15 1:47:58 PM by AceofSpades

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#98392: Aug 11th 2015 at 1:49:29 PM

[up][up][up] They tend to not be allowed to be on account of being to racist/crazy/anarchist/lose cannon. I think a lot of them are people who got filtered out of the military.

edited 11th Aug '15 1:49:38 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#98393: Aug 11th 2015 at 1:49:59 PM

They want to stick it to the man. Not be the man.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#98394: Aug 11th 2015 at 1:51:27 PM

Yeah, that's one of the biggest things about the relationship between Capitalism and the Left: Leftism is very easy to brand and sell for profit.

This is both a good and bad thing for Capitalism. On one hand, it's "selling the rope to hang on", but on the other hand it means that it's very easy to completely derail would-be commie movements.

edited 11th Aug '15 1:51:42 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#98395: Aug 11th 2015 at 1:58:34 PM

@Fighteer - It doesn't have to be directed at the federal government or reach national scale to get bad. It'd be enough if it simply expanded to greater St. Louis.

Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
#98396: Aug 11th 2015 at 2:17:02 PM

I guess the mentioning of Info Wars and Alex freakin' Jones (cans.wav) should have warned me they were pretty out there.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#98397: Aug 11th 2015 at 2:29:26 PM

[up][up] So out of curiosity do you think it will end the same way as the Arab Spring protests, governments overthrown and or civl war. Also I think the similarities are intentional. The Occupy Wall Street movement, which the current wave of left wing activist groups are descended from, took a lot of it's cues form the Arab Spring.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#98398: Aug 11th 2015 at 3:03:21 PM

Re: The Oath Keepers.

I know these people, they're my neighbors and business owners around me. And let me tell you, they aren't here to help the protesters. They're lunatics out to murder someone.

Their objective is to terrify the local populace and to bait the cops into a shootout. They don't give a damn about black people or racial injustice, they support it.

Oh really when?
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#98400: Aug 11th 2015 at 3:30:49 PM

[up][up][up]Not the same way or same level. But, confined to just Missouri, I can see the state government having to make changes and/or resign for new elections (assuming thats even allowed).

I see this as less Syria and more Oman.

EDIT-

If this keeps getting out of control anyway.

edited 11th Aug '15 3:31:11 PM by FFShinra


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