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Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#97901: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:46:14 PM

Again, tell them the truth about the effects of this poor legislation and leadership.

Ask for help from people outside of red states with more money and connections to join in the verbal outcry.

Do all you can to help people realize how dire the circumstances are. Humanize the statistics by telling your stories and letting those effected have a voice.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#97902: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:47:01 PM

It's simple, Mr. Tomu. Increase and multiply.

I propose a compromise. How about some of our more conservative reactionary posters stop with the reactionary "China is beating us!" knee-jerking and the ones on the other side stop with the constant "Kill all rich people" nonsense.

Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#97903: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:47:52 PM

False equal.

No one here is saying kill the rich people.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#97904: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:49:54 PM

Indeed, no one is saying "kill all rich people" and THAT'S the kind of bullshit that I more than approve of calling out as bullshit.

But, part of the tone police is there to make sure that it's harder to make that particular strawman.

edited 6th Aug '15 1:50:21 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#97905: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:49:56 PM

[up][up] (S)He's saying that people in general are, not that we are.

edited 6th Aug '15 1:50:10 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#97906: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:50:23 PM

Who here has ever seriously said we should kill rich people? At worst people have said they wouldn't care if certain rich people died or had their money taken from them but that's nowhere near the same thing as saying we should round them up and kill them.

[up]No they're not. They're clearly talking about things people say on this specific forum. I have never once seen someone say we should actually kill all rich people.

edited 6th Aug '15 1:51:13 PM by Kostya

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#97907: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:50:33 PM

[up][up] Which is also, by and large, false.

edited 6th Aug '15 1:50:42 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Know-age Since: May, 2010
#97908: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:52:58 PM

It's fair to hate the Party as an institution, but in my opinion you shouldn't demonize Joe or Jane line member.

For most policy issues, the Republican party has some deeply unflattering institutional reason why the elites are pushing for it and a relatively plausible smokescreen that your average citizen who doesn't care much about politics won't see through.

For example, it's pretty obvious that voter ID laws are being pushed as a form of voter suppression, but from my experience it does seem like it would easy to cheat and if I wasn't a politics nerd or a Democrat it would be east to convince me that it happens all the time.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#97909: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:55:46 PM

Exactly. As much as it's 100% true that Voter ID laws serve simply as a form of oppression, pointing this out does not work as a means of getting people to change their view of those laws, and of who to vote for.

When voters are immune to the truth, what the heck do you do?

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#97910: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:57:11 PM

GOP Debate Drinking Game

"You can reply to this Message!"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#97911: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:57:33 PM

[up][up]Why shouldn't we dislike specific people? They're actively supporting policies that screw over a large percentage of the population. A lot of them are also prone to saying some really insensitive things.

edited 6th Aug '15 1:57:57 PM by Kostya

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#97912: Aug 6th 2015 at 1:57:34 PM

My apologies. I confused this thread with a different one.

First point still stands though.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#97913: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:04:36 PM

Free Puerto Rico, America's colony

I also fail to see how being concerned about China, and yes our loss of military capability, constitutes supporting the policies of Scot Walker and his like. While I don't support the sequestration,to random, I do agree our military needs cuts, and the procurement system most defiantly needs reform. Also in my mind, streghthening ourselves domestically would help us better handle China and Russia abroad.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#97914: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:05:26 PM

Ahh, there is that thing about how Erick Eriskon was all like "NEENER NEENER WE'RE GONNA OUTREPRODUCE YOU FUCKFACES NEENER NEENER" yeah.

It's really rather sad that political control can redound to that kind of ridiculous strategy.

[up] Yeah, give some specifics about how "strengthening ourselves domestically" helps us deal with things abroad.

edited 6th Aug '15 2:06:35 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#97915: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:05:42 PM

China is way less relevant than people (on all sides of the political spectrum, mind you) make it out to be. The reason we pile on to people who demonize it is that they are failing to see real problems while they chase after imaginary ones.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#97916: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:09:36 PM

Well, I don't know much about it, but supposedly going to a Keynsian system will help grow the economy, and if people were paid more they would spend more, and thus grow the economy, Fighter can explain it's benefits better than I can.

edited 6th Aug '15 2:10:08 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#97917: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:12:33 PM

[up] I doubt Keynesianism will be enough for some.

Keep Rolling On
Know-age Since: May, 2010
#97918: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:12:56 PM

[up][up][up] You can dislike who you want, but they mostly believe what they do sincerely and for the same reasons people on the other side of the political spectrum do.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#97919: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:19:25 PM

There's not really a Keynesian "system" so much as Keynesian policies. Things like "Oh shit, workforce participation is low, better invest in our nation's roads and bridges as a stimulus measure."

The biggest problem in democracy is people having an immunity to truth. As opposed to Truthâ„¢ which is personal truth absent facts/evidence. Truthiness maybe?

edited 6th Aug '15 2:20:08 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#97920: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:23:27 PM

Because someone acts sincerely, it does not mean one has to tolerate what they do. But because a person who commits a mistake fucks over others, it does not mean we should stone them. As Gabrael has pointed out, basically all one has to face this is civility, and it fucking blows because it feels like just turning the other cheek

Being stern and direct is in my opinion an option against them and what sucks the most is that it is hard to get changes in the short term for this sort of thing...

And mind you, here I am talking just "logically". You put one of these people in front of me I will more likely want to choke them in bile within the first three seconds of conversation but hwile ones head can be kept cool, I advocate for not just. Completely ignoring their existence, tempting as it is.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#97921: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:37:24 PM

Aw, did I miss the killing rich people thing? I always miss the killing rich people thing.

Oh really when?
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#97922: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:44:18 PM

[up] We were just discussing how nobody is advocating killing all the rich people, then you came along....

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#97923: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:45:57 PM

I was busy playing with my bird. Bummer.

Also no killing rich people. Cathartic as hell and probably the morally justified thing to do but it never works. You'll only make everything worse.

Instead kick their ass with legislation and grassroots socialism.

Oh really when?
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#97924: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:47:31 PM

When has THAT ever worked?

FDR was an outlier, and even he abandoned single payer healthcare!

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#97925: Aug 6th 2015 at 2:48:50 PM

Well you gotta keep them down and keep the good guys in office.

Shit's hard, they've got money and connections and no morals but you can topple the rich through official means.

That's what I keep telling myself at least.

Oh really when?

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