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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#97126: Jul 26th 2015 at 11:46:16 AM

And if they hadn't taken them they wouldn't have been able to afford anything. That would be an indication that capitalism doesn't work. There's two able-bodied adults that are willing to work but no work exists for them. Why should the people that aren't lucky enough to get work have to suffer?

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#97127: Jul 26th 2015 at 11:50:14 AM

Putting aside moral hazard considerations....sometimes it's just plain more practical to have certain socialist policies. One of the US cities...Portland maybe...solved their homeless problem by the radical approach of simply giving those homeless people free housing. They found the program actually saved the city money in the long run by reducing homeless related crimes and problems.

edited 26th Jul '15 11:51:33 AM by nightwyrm_zero

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#97128: Jul 26th 2015 at 11:51:08 AM

Yeah, you're not really making much of an anti-socialism argument here. More an "anti-pride" argument if anything.

Those benefits saved your family (and or your father's heart from being eaten). Doesn't that prove that it's wrong to view them in such a negative fashion? Why should their be a stigma against such things?

That stigma comes from something. It's not innate. It's part of the culture.

Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#97129: Jul 26th 2015 at 12:01:10 PM

[up] I'm not anti socialist, hell I have a copy of Marxs manifesto.

I do believe that they make good policies, but its how they implment them.

Like with national healthcare, you can't just ream it down peoples throats and have them accept it as the law of the land. You have to introduce it gradually, same with other social programs.

Rome wasn't built in a day after all.

edited 26th Jul '15 12:04:13 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#97130: Jul 26th 2015 at 12:02:29 PM

[up][up] The Don't You Dare Pity Me! work ethic central to US culture had always seemed to me as the offspring of our Puritan, Calvinist, and other deeply religious roots and also the grim cynical nature of life in a relatively uncharted continent. Facing hostile terrain, harsh winters, and the debatable allegiance of the native aborigines, the early colonists must have formed societies that judged status and fame by the contributions of a citizen towards its survival - those deemed useful and productive would be hailed as the pillars of good and industrious society, while those unable to yield material results were seen as exploiting - whether intentionally or inadvertently - the hard-working productivity of the other dutiful citizens.

edited 26th Jul '15 12:03:36 PM by FluffyMcChicken

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#97131: Jul 26th 2015 at 12:03:42 PM

[up][up]We still don't have national healtchare. We just made it harder for insurance companies to fuck over their clients.

[up]That's not necessarily a bad idea when you're on the frontier and struggling to build a society. Unfortunately it becomes incredibly stupid once you've established good infrastructure and have technology that can significantly increase food production.

edited 26th Jul '15 12:05:20 PM by Kostya

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#97132: Jul 26th 2015 at 12:05:08 PM

Reminder: Even if you get National Healthcare, expect it to be a political football of the highest order, something that wins or loses Elections.

Keep Rolling On
Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#97133: Jul 26th 2015 at 12:06:24 PM

I've learned to shed some of my anti-capitalist leanings as I age. I disagree with the idea that capitalism is fundamentally bad, but in its current form in the US it is in a state of disarray. That said, there are several reasons why many people have developed such a strong affinity for democratic socialism that have already been explored extensively in this thread.

Video - Why America is not the greatest country in the world

I've been seeing this video doing the rounds on both conservatives' and liberals' Facebook pages, which is quite telling. The problem I have had with the video (yeah it's been out for three years now, I know.) is that it somewhat inadvertently feeds into the cult of centrism mentality that seems to exacerbate the problems others here have outlined. It's a good clip from the show Newsroom, and I like it a lot, but the fact that some pretty narrow-minded people (people are responsible for encouraging a lot of the problems he lists) keep singing its praises is more than a little troubling.

EDIT: I take issue with the video clip lacking the surgical precision needed to address specific causes of the problems with the United States. It shies away from pointing a finger any one specific entity, so it just throws our entire culture and systems under the bus, and people cheer because no one in particular got their feelings hurt.

edited 26th Jul '15 12:10:58 PM by Aprilla

DrStarky Okay Guy from Corn And Pig Land Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Okay Guy
#97134: Jul 26th 2015 at 12:09:10 PM

It's important to remember that Obmacare is only slightly edited from a conservative document.

The ACA is like the most conservative, privatized approach to health care in the world and Rebublicans still fought it every step of the way.

Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#97135: Jul 26th 2015 at 12:15:01 PM

Okay, it's official. We need a U.S. culture thread for this line of discussion (along with others). Off to make it.

Edit: And made. Here's hoping it gets opened soon.

edited 26th Jul '15 12:26:15 PM by TotemicHero

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#97136: Jul 26th 2015 at 12:16:04 PM

[up][up][up]To be fair, it is the first scene of the entire show. Unless you mean you have issues with the use of the clip.

edited 26th Jul '15 12:16:16 PM by 3of4

"You can reply to this Message!"
Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#97137: Jul 26th 2015 at 12:42:24 PM

People don't even have the option to swallow their pride and ask for help if those programs are cut and nonexistent.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#97138: Jul 26th 2015 at 12:49:22 PM

As I've said before, I don't believe a nation can be objectively the best (similar to art. There is no best painting, is there? I say there's a few competitors for the best nation, the US being one of them).

However, there is a fairly reasonable argument for America being the "best" nation. Most of the world watches movies coming out of the United States more than any nation. America has some of the largest businesses coming out of it. America has the world's most powerful military. America is one of the most scientifically advanced nations in the world, and is the only nation to put a man on the moon.

It's also rather telling that America is the only nation in the west to create so much Hype Backlash.

Leviticus 19:34
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#97139: Jul 26th 2015 at 12:52:31 PM

[up][up] Although there should be some restrictions. There's something inhrently wrong when drug users and other unsavory people give the system the run around.

[up] That's the way it always is. Reality is way different then what our media would have people believe. At least we haven't run out of toilet paper, we can't be too bad off.

[down] That's what O'malley did to Southren Maryland when it didn't follow lockstep and vote for him. Took away funding and sent it to the northern counties. Although that's probably not the same thing.

Like the old saying goes "Money Talks"

edited 26th Jul '15 1:05:09 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#97140: Jul 26th 2015 at 12:53:54 PM

So, the trustworthy wiki said a thing called "The Donald Trump Act" passed, that would force local law enforcement to report found illegal immigrants or get the funding taken.

Since I doubt its any way near a reliable source, is that true?

Also, is it me or is the "Gets funding taken" really getting used to force *everything* these days by law.

"You can reply to this Message!"
Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#97141: Jul 26th 2015 at 1:11:48 PM

[up][up] What are you referring to?

Many assistance programs like SNAP, housing assistance, daycare vouchers, and what not are being defunded or changed to where no one can use them.

Unemployment insurance is another good example. Federal law says it has to be there, but states get to change rules on who is eligible to apply, making it easy to leave honest people who have fallen on hard times in the dust.

Im so sick of this welfare life mentality. You cannot live on social services alone anymore. You just cant.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#97142: Jul 26th 2015 at 1:25:31 PM

Yeah the US could put an end to poverty if it had the political will to, hell it's been proven that the cheapest way to deal with homelessness is the simply give the homeless homes.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#97143: Jul 26th 2015 at 2:56:30 PM

Eh, I know welfare cheats and frankly I don't care. Hell I'm sorta being a bit dishonest with the system myself to tell the truth.

But I'm more than happy to see my tax dollars go to them because I know I'm also paying for people that need it.

I'm not gonna sink the whole safety net over a few bad eggs.

Oh really when?
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#97144: Jul 26th 2015 at 3:34:19 PM

From a pro-welfare perspective, you want to cut down on fraud because fraud decreases efficiency, if you could enrich the lives of 2 people in a fraud-ridden system or 3 people in a cleaner system, the latter is still preferable.

The problem is that the narrative of welfare fraud is simply anti-welfare.

Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#97145: Jul 26th 2015 at 3:47:27 PM

Unless you mean you have issues with the use of the clip.

Yes, I have issues with the use of the clip.

@Welfare: Bluntly speaking, many Americans know precisely jack shit about how welfare works. Often the ones who need it the most are the biggest opponents of it.

edited 26th Jul '15 3:47:58 PM by Aprilla

AngelicBraeburn from Eccentric California Since: Jan, 2015
#97146: Jul 26th 2015 at 4:22:09 PM

Dennis Rodman endorses Donald Trump for president.

Looks like Trump has got this election in the bag. tongue

edited 26th Jul '15 4:22:53 PM by AngelicBraeburn

The artist formally known as Deviant Braeburn
Skycobra51 A suitable case for treatment from The US of A Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Only knew I loved her when I let her go
A suitable case for treatment
#97147: Jul 26th 2015 at 4:39:08 PM

[up] Oh shit, there goes the planet tongue

China, you're fired(kaboom)

I can do one better.

Trump/Rodman 2016

edited 26th Jul '15 4:53:07 PM by Skycobra51

Look upon my privilege ye mighty and despair.
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#97148: Jul 26th 2015 at 4:41:34 PM

[up] Bah, as long he leaves us Europeans alone... tongue

edited 26th Jul '15 4:43:29 PM by DrunkenNordmann

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#97150: Jul 26th 2015 at 4:54:05 PM

Huckabee invoked the Holocaust, saying that Obama was marching Israel to "the door of the oven", while slamming the Iran deal.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/26/politics/huckabee-obama-israel-oven-door/index.html

And to think he was once considered one of the sorta reasonable ones. I remember he wasn't that batshit in 08.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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